Hydraulic steering failure

DJPirks · 17 May 2010, 19:29

Hi,

So that I don't hijack aye_capn's thread (http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35775) I have started a new one here...

For what it's worth I had a hydraulic failure on our RIB today; engine went hard over throwing wife & 2 kids into the water, and 3rd kid hitting her head on the A-frame.

The connection between the hydraulic line and the ram/piston at the engine can off.

The biggest problem was being unable to steer to get to them so they could get back aboard.... not to mention that 2 of the 3 lifejacket didn't inflate! - there will be phonecalls tomorrow to the lifejacket manufacturers

To answer the questions from the other thread:

The connection type is/was a compression coupling that blew out, maybe it wasn't as tightly done up as it could have been, or it had never been tight enough to push the olive (if it has one) on to the pipe. These will now be replaced with a crimped end that is threaded on to the ram end.

The lifejackets were in date (18 months old) junior lifejackets that had been replaced by the manufacturer following a recall. They were Halkey Roberts type. It would appear that the cylinder was not installed properly. In hindsight they could have inflated them by the mouth tube, but with two kids hanging off her in a state of shock it didn't come to mind at the time; and were pulled out the water within 2 minutes by the RIB we were in company with. The manual toggle was pulled a lot of times, but did not work due to the cylinder not being installed properly.

What do I know now:

The throwing line has been ordered - you can't go and pick someone up when the go over the side if you can't steer the boat!
Check the lifejacket fully yourself - don't trust even a new lifejacket.
A good VHF/DSC is essential - we already carry a fixed and portable VHF, and are very glad that Solent Coastguard still listen on CH16
Cruising in company is the best way to travel.
Accidents do happen, so we will be back out on the water as soon as the steering is fixed

willk · 17 May 2010, 19:44

Thanks for the extra info., esp regarding the loose cylinders!

You might consider an emergency steering fitting at this point - no big expense, simply a clip/bolt/tie-on tiller for just such a scenario.

TimM has decided NOT to sell his: here

DJPirks · 17 May 2010, 19:55

Wilk, an excellent idea. I'll add it to the top of the list of bits to add to the boat. A shame you told TimM what his stainless bits were for!

Dom.

willk · 17 May 2010, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJPirks

A shame you told TimM what his stainless bits were for!

Eh, not me, I'd have smirked as his bits got rusty through lack of use...

And it doesn't have to be something as snazztastic as that - a simple bracket/receiver can be fitted to the engine mount and a pole (eg flag pole, oar, boat hook, fishin rod) can be employed as the tiller, come the moment...

Poly · 17 May 2010, 20:24

Dom,

Thanks for the extra info. Its useful to know it was loose cylinders rather than a dodgy auto mechanism. There is now someone producing bayonet fitting cylinders and jackets to mitigate against this risk. (I don't have them but check the cylinders are tight everytime they come out the cupboard).

Glad everyone OK in the end.

Its a useful point about being able to deploy emergency steering quickly. I suspect most of us who are not coded either have no plan or have never tried the plan for real - never mind the very real possibility that steering failure has turned into a critical situation.

SPR · 17 May 2010, 20:28

Sorry to here about your accident, life jacket failure is quite common, it will surprise you how many life jackets that are never opened up.

You find a similar accident happening in Loch Lommond, unfortunately the people involved were not so lucky as you:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/...och_lomond.cfm

I suggest you you contact your RNLI Local Sea Safety Officer, who will be able to show you how to inspect your life jackets and give you few tips.

You can download the RNLI Guides from:

http://www.sea-safety.org.uk/sea_saf...formation.html

Sat 22nd - Elie Harbour - Firth of Forth is a RNLI Life Jacket Clinic, where we check Life Jackets Free of charge.

Might be bit far for you but any locals it is an ideal time to A) meet me! and B) get your life jacket checked and you will also get a free coffee and biccy into the bargain.

More information http://www.sea-safety.org.uk/index.html

S.

willk · 17 May 2010, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

either have no plan or have never tried the plan for real - never mind the very real possibility that steering failure has turned into a critical situation.

Well, I have a plan but no way of testing it - short of bollixing me steering.

My plan is to use the tiller to fix/lash the steering in an ahead position and use the throttles to RTB. Except if the WX is shite, in which case I'm gonna halfta go with steering from the stern with the XO on the throttles.

It's a b1tch

Tim M · 17 May 2010, 21:09

Yes many thanks to Ian for telling me what those stainless pole were for. Would seem they are emergency tillers for Suzuki 300s of which I am currently running two of (which would explain why I have them!). As I said in the other thread, when it came to having emergency steering on board for the coding inspection the chap was always happy with the idea of lashing a paddle or boathook to the side of the engine in order to steer it. I've never actually tried this, but providing you have the necessary bits on board and don't go too fast should work well as long as theres two of you (one on the tiller, one on the throttle).

I've heard of the bolt that holds the engine onto the steering fail before but never the hose come off. Worrying stuff.

On the subject of life jackets, I always inflate and fully check a new life jacket before I start using it. Better safe than sorry.

DJPirks · 17 May 2010, 21:10

The most frustrating thing with the lifejackets is that the week before we had put the kids in some "old" lifejackets and got them to pull the toggles so they would know what it was like to be in one when it inflates. We then left them inflated for 24 hours to check they stayed up. Before getting them checked "professionaly"

Sadly we didn't do the visual inspections on their "good" ones.

We now have a more frequent check of their new Baltc Argus jackets planned once they arrive. (This is NOT the same manufacturer as the ones that failed!)

CJL · 17 May 2010, 21:25

Always check a lifejacket cannister before using it.

At work we discovered that particularly when left in the boot of a car, the cannisters can loosen from the fitting and if not used for long enough come completely off.

You can normally tell if it's tight through the lifejacket skin without unpacking it all.

Chris

Hightower · 17 May 2010, 21:30

Also Sorry to hear about your mishap.

I like having my children being in foam life jackets, no need to worry about these not inflating. Not always the most practical solution, but does offer them some protection from banging into things on board too.

Tim M · 17 May 2010, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

Also Sorry to hear about your mishap.

I like having my children being in foam life jackets, no need to worry about these not inflating. Not always the most practical solution, but does offer them some protection from banging into things on board too.

Warmer too. I sometimes wear one in the winter to keep the chills out

Hightower · 17 May 2010, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

Warmer too. I sometimes wear one in the winter to keep the chills out

Can you get full 275 newtons foam life jackets? Would have thought they were too bulky.

Tim M · 17 May 2010, 21:45

I lie. I wear a buoyancy aid when its cold not a lifejacket.

Hightower · 17 May 2010, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

I lie. I wear a buoyancy aid when its cold not a lifejacket.

So are these safe if you get knocked out? Is there anything out there that will self right without the need for compressed gases?

SPR · 17 May 2010, 21:52

foam jackets that self right for kids:

http://www.baltic.se/categories.asp?cat_id=4&lang=eng

Hybrid Jacket. is best for RIBers...

http://www.baltic.se/product.asp?prod_id=32&lang=eng

S.

Tim M · 17 May 2010, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

So are these safe if you get knocked out? Is there anything out there that will self right without the need for compressed gases?

Short of one of the punters bashing me over the head I hope I won't get knocked out! In all seriousness, if it's a calm day and it's cold I will go out in my Crewsaver BA simply because its a bit warmer. If it's not calm I'll wear a life jacket.

sussex birdman · 18 May 2010, 16:49

As 'the other rib' I would just like to post my two bobs worth in addition to cousin Doms words of wisdom about life jackets and so on.

Firstly I've never seen such a twist and shake when the steering let go. I dont think the boat was going that fast - maybe 25 knots or so (Dom?) but to lurch like that and have the force to launch folk out of the boat so far was incredible. I know its kind of obvious but it really brought it home to me to get your passengers ( I had a few 'first timers' on my boat) to hold on tight. In this case the forces at work were so intense it would have made no difference - I know for a fact we drill our kids to always hold on and they do - and it was the three passengers ( 1 adult, two children) on the port side, all of whom are experienced sailors and ribsters, who got thrown in but it made me realise just how quickly disaster can strike and how forceful it can be.

We closed on the scene fairly rapidly after Dom cut the power. This really emphasized to me that if you are out in a pair or group, dont follow directly behind and keep a good 200 meters apart. We were quite a way off to one side and a good distance behind but I dread to think what would have happened if we had been closer and directly behind Doms boat.

Lastly, cousin Sam (Mrs Dom) has since added to the suggested kit list - I had nothing on board except what other people were wearing to keep people warm or dry once out of the water and she has suggested foil thermal blankets on board too which I think are a great idea if you have to wait for any time for the services to arrive or get people back to shore.

I have had better Sundays but probably never learnt so much!

David

jambo · 18 May 2010, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPR

foam jackets that self right for kids:

http://www.baltic.se/categories.asp?cat_id=4&lang=eng

Hybrid Jacket. is best for RIBers...

http://www.baltic.se/product.asp?prod_id=32&lang=eng

S.

Great link to the Baltic jacket SPR looks amazing on the xmzs list!!

J

DJL · 18 May 2010, 18:35

Glad to hear everyone is OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sussex birdman

...she has suggested foil thermal blankets on board too which I think are a great idea...

I'd recommend TPA's over foil blankets. They're much warmer and keep rain/spray off the casualty too.

You can get 'normal' ones or super-dooper posh ones

As already mentioned - you really should check lifejackets every time you go out. I'd say around 75% of all lifejackets I've checked during own boat tuition have been faulty and wouldn't inflate when needed. Most of those were simply loose cylinders. Don't assume new ones are OK either, I've found them with loose cylinders too - not to mention one with a staple through it.