Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 21 August 2002, 14:54   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 55
Boat registration

How many of you have registered your boats with SSR?

I ask because unless you intend on going abroad (which I don't for the foreseeable) I see no reason for doing so.

I appreciate that it may be important to register the boat with the Coastguard via a CG66 for but this is different.

Also if you happen to stray (by mistake of course) into the wrong shipping lane or get too close to a large vessel in the Solent etc. it is a very good way of anyone reporting you to the authorities.

Am I missing something?

Nigel
__________________
nigelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 August 2002, 16:34   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Dartmouth
Boat name: Puffling
Make: Avon Rover 3.4m
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mercury 15hp
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 404
Send a message via MSN to badbaws
Having done a fair bit of sailing I have been cut up many a time by motorboats.... When motorboating I have seen terrible displays of seamanship from the string and canvas brigade. I also am a deck officer and regularly find small boats of all denominations not complying with the IRPCS....for those who don't know what that stands for I would suggest they should be at sea in a boating lake....
Registration can only really work if there was mandatory licencing for all boat users to be qualified....
I was in Eling Creek about a month ago getting ready to launch and a jet skier launched before me and went hurtling arounnd the small creek at near max chat spraying passers by and causing the launching boats to suffer pounding on there trailers... on the road this would be reckless driving his registration recorded and appropriate measures taken...
Bring in compulsory boat drivers licences...equavalent to PB level 2...level 1 is a waste of space...then register all boats with an individual ID no.
I am only 22 and definately not a killjoy but unless something happens soon I feel there may be more accidents.
To join the marines and kill someone u train for maybe a year... to learn to drive a ship u train to drive for 4 years...and 90 knot powerboats...heres the keys off u go...
__________________
badbaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 August 2002, 19:51   #3
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: SOUTHAMPTON
Boat name: Won't get Fooled Again
Make: Ribtec
Length: 6.5
Engine: Honda 130
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 888
Nicely done Badbaws,

I agree with your arguments and will get my boats registered on the SSR soon.

I couldn't agree with you more regarding a mandatory drivers ticket and for yachts too, ( I really like sailing but I am a Ribster at heart). I personally don't think the PB2 is enough to let you drive a fast boat, or any in a congested place such as the Solent. You s learn a small range of manouveres, on a flat sea if your unlucky and then you are qualified to Charter a Scorpion and go Zooming (as my nephew put's it). Having saud that it's better than nothing.

I believe the PB2 should entitle you to helm a boat but under guidance ...a bit like the P plates you see on new drivers cars.

One other thing about yacht drivers, they seem to forget that different rules apply when they are not under sail, and getting out the old cone is such a chore!

I don't like it when Ribsters break the speed limit's in rivers it just keeps on making the authorities think we are irresponsible.

I must be getting old. I am starting to get responsible

Anybody feel like signing a petition demanding compulsory boat tickets
__________________
thewavehumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 07:01   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Hilton-of-Cadboll
Length: no boat
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,801
"Compulsory!"

No, no, no.

Boating, which includes, canoeing, ribbing, sibbing, sailing, rowing, etc. is about fun and freedom. Yes, of course with this comes responsibility.

Making boat registration and handling courses compulsory will have the following effects:

Getting into boating will be MUCH more expensive
Fewer people will take up boating
There will be a huge increase in bureaucracy
Boating will become an even more 'elite' pastime
Other things such as compulsory equipment would soon follow
Danger and adventure will be legislated away
Compulsory and expensive insurance
Slipway owners will charge much more

Making boat registration and handling courses compulsory will NOT have the following effects:

Stupid and ignorant boat owners will change
There will be no accidents

You can bet your bottom dollar that adventurers like Alan Priddy would not be allowed to continue.

Believe me COMPULSION is a waypoint we DON'T want on our chart.

Keith (too many regulations in life as it is) Hart
__________________
Keith Hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 07:58   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 55
Couldn't agree with you more Keith!!
__________________
nigelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 11:24   #6
JCW
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Essex
Boat name: Inflatable
Make: Zodiac
Length: under 3m
Engine: Yamaha F6
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 249
Send a message via AIM to JCW
A good example of this is the regulations for a car driver.
You need to pass a test, have insurance etc and registration but there are plenty of road users whom still break the rules and drive like maniacs!!

On the jet ski front, I am sure there are some examples of good conduct, however my experiences of them are not.

Last year while anchored off of Clacton pier, enjoying the sun and along comes a jet ski, spins around and deliberately fills my rib up. Luckily all my electronic equipment is waterproof, but he did not know what I had aboard. Last weekend, my wife and I went to Thorpe Bay near southend. I could not believe my eyes.
Adult jet skiers using children as obstacles to ski / splash around. Total anarchy on the slipway, upto 4 jet skis, boats trying to launch together, then the race up the slipway with the 4 wheel drive cars. All this in a buoyed 6 Knot zone!!.
__________________
Regards

JCW
JCW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 12:40   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: St Mawes
Boat name: Magellan Zulu
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 7m +
Engine: 2 x Suzuki DF150
MMSI: 235094135
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 483
I'm with you, Keith. Well said.
__________________
Mike G
Mike Garside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 14:37   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Dartmouth
Boat name: Puffling
Make: Avon Rover 3.4m
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mercury 15hp
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 404
Send a message via MSN to badbaws
compulsory basic training to ride a motorbike does not stop people riding and enjoying it...so why would some kind of compulsory basic training for boats...I did PB levels 1&2 and safety boat all for £85... I pay £150 fully comp for 4m RIB any driver boat value £3500....so insurance is not going to be the killer and neither is the training.
the cost of an outboard service is usually over £100 a year!!for a 40/50 hp...
Does an ICC required for foreign waters stop people enjoying boating in say France??
People who object to training are usually those without any who have always done it 'that way'.
Read rule 1 of the IRPCS these rules apply to all vessels........
And what is the definition of a vessel see rule 3....then tell me that for example one of my friends borrows my RIB for the weekend goes off and has an accident involving another vessel....would it have happened if he read..and understood the IRPCS...
I put it to all the RIBsters on this site who who's the IRPCS as it applies to all of us!!! and who understands it????
alex.
__________________
badbaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 14:39   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Dartmouth
Boat name: Puffling
Make: Avon Rover 3.4m
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mercury 15hp
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 404
Send a message via MSN to badbaws
ps I am off to sea in my ship tomorrow for six days how many small boats will impede my safe passage....bets on a postcard....be it WAFI's or Gas Guzzlers
__________________
badbaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 14:45   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 55
Well thanks for all that, all very interesting I'm sure but it doesn't actually answer my original quaestion whether it is worthwhile registering a RIB?

Nigel
__________________
nigelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 15:36   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Hilton-of-Cadboll
Length: no boat
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,801
"compulsory basic training to ride a motorbike does not stop people riding and enjoying it..."

Well I can speak with some authority on this as I was in the motorcycle industry at the time and I sat on the government and industry committies that brought in CBT for motorcycles.

The cost was VERY high. Fortunately there was a national motorcycle training scheme (Star Rider) who had for about 15 years previously set up training centres all over the UK. There had to be a national standard set up for the CBT instructors. The DSA (Driving Standards Agency) oversaw the scheme.

The bureaucracy was unbelievable. Forms, more forms, licences, examinations, monitoring, examination fees and THAT was just for the CBT instructors. Many small training schemes could not cope or afford to carry on. In the end even Star Rider went under leaving training to the more aggressively commercial companies. Training courses that were £12.00 rocketed up to several hundred pounds. Many people did not bother and went straight onto cars. We always suspected that this was the government's secret agenda.

None of this stopped people riding dangerously. None of this stopped dangerous car drivers killing motorcyclists. Fatal motorcycle accident figures did go down - there were less people riding motorcycles!

Just take a look at that idiot kid who has just passed your car on his scooter....he has done CBT, did it stop him? No.

Of course on motorcycles we have compulsory helmets for the rider and passenger. Motorcycles and indeed all road vehicle are covered by 'Type Approval', crash testing, MOT, driving licence, insurance, construction and use regulations, many road traffic acts, highway code, ROAD TAX! Need I say more?

Do you want this for boating? I don't.

I remember at one meeting I attended someone read out a letter in a newspaper from the parents of a young lad who was killed on a motorcycle. They said that motorcycling was dangerous and that it should be banned altogether. They also said that if a ban on motorcycling saved just one life then it was worth it.

Jerry ??? (can't remember his surname) who was at the time president of the British Motorcyclists Federation, said this was nonsense. He said that just about everything we did has danger attached and that the price of one life was worth the enjoyment of millions of people. Whatever we do somone will get killed doing it. I'm sure that someone must have been killed by being poked in the eye with a knitting needle! Shall we regulate knitting?

Having worked in an industry that suffered the imposition of more and more legislation I can tell you that I do not want to see boating going onto that particular sandbank.

I can tell you that when I was looking at getting my little boat if I was faced with:

Getting a licence
Getting Insurance
Registering the boat
Buying life jackets (okay so I did get those), gps, radio, radar and whatever else the government decided I needed
Doing a radio course
Booking and paying for a training course
Travelling to the coast for the course
Taking a written test
Taking a practical test
Updating my boating licence
Having an annual MOT style test on my boat
Paying an annual TAX on my boat

I would most probably not have bothered and I certainly could not have afforded to do so. RIB Net would have one less member (okay so there is one advantage!)

Next question is - who the heck is going to 'police' these regulations? Coastguard, local council, Environment Agency, the police, the Royal Navy? Just imagine how many staff they would need, and just think of who would have to pay! Us.

Crikey, as a non commercial boater the sea is about the last perishing place I can go to escape all these blooming regulations and interference from government. I'd like to keep it that way.

Keith (it's a very slippery slope) Hart
__________________
Keith Hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 16:04   #12
Member
 
Country: Other
Make: FB 55
Length: 10m +
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,711
Hope you are feeling better after getting all that off your chest ?

I still believe there is no substitute for good training coupled with experience. How do regulate experience anyway??
A sport I used to partake in and competed on an international level (as well as 2 other members of ribnet) was fairly heavily regulated, that is by your peers. The sport happens to be skydiving, and all the rules contained in a book known as the BSR's (Basic Safety Regulations) were enforced, amongst other reasons, to protect the idiots who had a death-wish and had scant disregard for their fellow jumpers. The more jumps you acquired and tasks you completed meant that you were graded in a licensing system. If you happen to be travelling anywhere in the world and arrived at a drop-zone, the CI (chief instructor) would immediately be able to assess your ability due to the license you held. I felt this worked pretty well.

I believe it is all about 'BALANCE'. Common sense regulations with a minimum of fuss as far as bureaucracy is concerned. Out of interest to anyone following this thread, no craft may be under way in the Channel Islands without it being registered. Each craft under thirty feet is issued a JY number which must be prominently displayed, the larger craft's registration is its name. This system, I must confess, works very well. The only criteria is that one has to show your valid insurance papers and have adequate cover for water-skiing, or water toys. There are no qualifications a person requires to helm a craft.
Fundamentally, I think there should be a standard, at least, that a person has to attain before taking the helm. That is my opinion and you do not necessarily have to agree.
__________________
Charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 16:16   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Dartmouth
Boat name: Puffling
Make: Avon Rover 3.4m
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mercury 15hp
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 404
Send a message via MSN to badbaws
yes register RIB and all boats..better system needed than SSR...
__________________
badbaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 16:16   #14
Member
 
Country: Other
Make: FB 55
Length: 10m +
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,711
SSR

Smaller boats are frequently registered on the Small Ships Register (SSR) if they are to be used abroad and will display a number preceded by the letters "SSR". This does not provide evidence of title and a new certificate must be obtained by the new owner. If you are not going to use your boat abroad, I see no reason at all to part with £16.00.
__________________
Charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 16:38   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Hilton-of-Cadboll
Length: no boat
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,801
Hi again....

Yes Charles I did feel better for it!

Let me make it clear, I'm all for training. I'm against compulsion.

Keith (I demand regulation for the use of parentheses) Hart
__________________
Keith Hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 16:48   #16
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Dartmouth
Boat name: Puffling
Make: Avon Rover 3.4m
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mercury 15hp
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 404
Send a message via MSN to badbaws
I am not saying an anual health check for boats like an MOT...I am just saying that as the waterways get busier...eg the Solent at the weekend...How many pepole do u know who correctly obey crossing regulations and just cut across your bow....
I see magazines displaying people on fast boats small and pick with no lifejackets that is common sense no matter how good a swimmer u are......
I thnik anyone who drives a powerboat of more than 6/7 knots should do a planing craft compulsory training course. A 2.2m inflatable with a 2 hp outboard is less likely to damage property or persons than a 20ft hard chine or RIB....designed to do 30 knots...I am not saying training stops problems it might reduce them.....
__________________
badbaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 20:58   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: SOUTHAMPTON
Boat name: Won't get Fooled Again
Make: Ribtec
Length: 6.5
Engine: Honda 130
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 888
Keith,

Reading through your arguments, and very passionate they were too! Would you be good enough too clarify a few points for me.

Would you be in favour of me popping into a bike shop and buying a Kwacker 1100 (green of course) and taking it out on the road with no trainig or ticket

Do you feel it's ok to run a boat without it being insured

Do you see a difference in requirements between say a 4 metre boat and an 8 metre boat in terms of trainig, safety equipment and driver knowledge

Regards

Stuart
__________________
thewavehumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 22:23   #18
Member
 
Country: UK
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 13
nigel - looking forward to a ride in your new valiant!

Lovely!
__________________
Shara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 August 2002, 23:40   #19
Member
 
Richard B's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Devon
Boat name: White Ice
Make: Ranieri
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzuki 115hp
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,015
Whatever your view on this, I reckon it's on the way (ie some form of compulsory licensing/registration) - and having looked at the new MCA requirements for passage plans, it's sort of already here. The wording of the SOLAS 2002 regs seems a bit loose, but a quick summary would seem to be that all vessels which leave a "safe haven" must have a radar reflector, charts and compass "where possible", and certain navigational information must be carried - weather forecast and navigational information (ie a passage plan). As this is the sort of stuff that the RYA will teach you about, it seems just a step away from some form of compulsory certification.

PS - I was planning to take my little dinghy to France this year (no, not a cross channel epic in a 3.6m - but taking it over in the car boot), so I did my ICC, then realised that to comply fully with the law, I ought to get PepperII SSR registered! (and fly a red ensign, courtesy flag...) Does anyone have a boat this small on the SSR?
__________________
Richard B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 August 2002, 06:39   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: St Mawes
Boat name: Magellan Zulu
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 7m +
Engine: 2 x Suzuki DF150
MMSI: 235094135
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 483
Here's an interesting quote I came across in the September issuse of Practical Boat Owner. ..

"There is a perception among some bureaucrats and legislators that people are too irresponsible to learn about boats and the sea voluntarily; and they need to be forced to do so. Each year, more than 120,000 enthusiasts choose to take RYA shorebased courses, which just goes to prove that the men in suits are wrong."

This came from one James Stevens, the guy responsible for RYA training.

If the RYA is against compulsory training, badbaws, d'you think you might just have got this one wrong?
__________________
Mike G
Mike Garside is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 14:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.