Manual vs Automatic Cars

Chopppywaters · 09 November 2005, 21:22

Other than the fun of a manual stick shift automobile what is the benefit that Manual cars have over Automatic cars? Im thinking of getting a Jeep Wrangler and i dunno if i should get stick or automatic

Biggles · 09 November 2005, 21:40

Hi Choppy,

This is predominantly a UK Forum.

In the US you all use Auto because thats the done thing and fuel is cheap.

In the UK auto is quite rare on any car. it costs more and fuel consumption is worse.

My advice. If you are going to buy a 4 X 4 (SUV), then get a diesel with manual box. That is the ultimate setup for SUV. Loads of low down torque and you choose when to change gear.

I have a feeling Diesel engines with manual box on an American car are quite rare.

But having said so, you might be able to get it relatively cheap becuase thats not wanted.

Having said all that. if you can get a V8 petrol engine and afford to run it then get the auto box.

As i said at the start the UK and US are entirely different environments and markets and so different cars/engines suit each but not both.

Ask your US friends. They should give a better answer.

codprawn · 09 November 2005, 21:46

A lot depends on the type of engine - what it will be used for etc etc.

An automatic is not as efficient as a manual so will use more fuel and have less power.

In theory an automatic is slower but in practice not always - when you see the 0-60 times on cars they really thrash them - a manual will soon burn out it's clutch if you rev it to 5000 and let go!!!

Offroad an auto is better for creeping over rocks and going uphill - a manual is better for engine breaking going down.

A lot of people don't drive an auto properly - it really helps to use it a bit like a manual and change down for engine braking etc.

I find big engined petrol vehicles tend to suit an auto better than a high revving unit or a diesel.

As an example a Range Rover V8 is great as an auto - a ferrari would be far better as a manual.

Or on a smaller scale a 1.0l Nissan Micra is better as a manual whilst a 2.5 mondeo works fine as an auto.

Chopppywaters · 09 November 2005, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

A lot depends on the type of engine - what it will be used for etc etc.

An automatic is not as efficient as a manual so will use more fuel and have less power.

In theory an automatic is slower but in practice not always - when you see the 0-60 times on cars they really thrash them - a manual will soon burn out it's clutch if you rev it to 5000 and let go!!!

Offroad an auto is better for creeping over rocks and going uphill - a manual is better for engine breaking going down.

A lot of people don't drive an auto properly - it really helps to use it a bit like a manual and change down for engine braking etc.

I find big engined petrol vehicles tend to suit an auto better than a high revving unit or a diesel.

As an example a Range Rover V8 is great as an auto - a ferrari would be far better as a manual.

Or on a smaller scale a 1.0l Nissan Micra is better as a manual whilst a 2.5 mondeo works fine as an auto.

makes sense

Chopppywaters · 09 November 2005, 22:03

o and Biggles your definetly correct about the rareness of a diesel manual...i dont even think thats an option from a dealership around here

bogib · 09 November 2005, 22:22

Diesel options for JEEP´s in US not an option, and I am astonished American thinking of sticky shifting all I know over there have automatic.

My American cars (Chrysler LHS and Hummer H1) are both automatic then European brands (Freelander, VW´s ) are all sticky shifters, my old Jeep Wagoneer was sticky shifty one and do not recommend that same goes for my old Ford Econoline terrible so keep yourself to automatic for American made even the former East German car manufacturer Trabant has better sticky shifter than American ones.

Bogi

This is my Jón Baldur´s Trabant

jwalker · 09 November 2005, 22:24

Buy auto in all cases. Smoother, quieter, better control of traction, seriously less tedious in town etc, etc. Folk will say you just get used to changing gear on a manual. I'm sure you do but I bet you get used to bumping your head on a wall too.

Folk are living in the past re fuel efficiency, better suited to petrol/diesel etc.

As an example, it has not been possible to buy a manual Range Rover for many years. I wonder why?

Chopppywaters · 09 November 2005, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

I'm sure you do but I bet you get used to bumping your head on a wall too.

heh thats another big problem

I havta learn how to drive a "sticky shift" efficiently heh

k i think im stickin with automatic

codprawn · 10 November 2005, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Buy auto in all cases. Smoother, quieter, better control of traction, seriously less tedious in town etc, etc. Folk will say you just get used to changing gear on a manual. I'm sure you do but I bet you get used to bumping your head on a wall too.

Folk are living in the past re fuel efficiency, better suited to petrol/diesel etc.

As an example, it has not been possible to buy a manual Range Rover for many years. I wonder why?

Not that long actually - 2002 to be exact!!! I think the main reason is that most range Rovers sold are petrol V8s whilst most Discoverys sold are diesel.

I disagree about living in the past re fuel/suitability. For example the diesel Audi A4 auto I had averaged only about 38mpg whilst the manual version was nearer 48mpg. This was mainly motorway work - about town it is possibly the other way around!!!

Also the Discovery TD5 auto was criticised for being slow(ZF auto) at first so they remapped it which gave it similar performance to the manual - result 22mpg instead of 30.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE autos - my RR V8 is auto and I wouldn't have it any other way but some cars just seem to work better as a manual.

And as far as the new breed of paddle style autos in Ferraris etc goes - yuch!!! They are normal manual boxes with a computer controlled clutch so don't have any of the losses caused by fluid boxes but they do the clutch no favours at all. Because the driver has no control over it he tends to drive it as a normal auto which means when parking or creeping in traffic the clutch is constantly slipping!!! Most drivers would never drive a normal manual that way.

Jackwabbit · 10 November 2005, 06:36

The only Auto I’ve ever owned was a Vauxhall Carlton, which was fantastic until I hooked up the boat or caravan. At UK towing speed of 60MPH it was permanently hunting between 2nd & 3rd gear, every time it would drop into 3rd it would slow down until it dropped back into 2nd then it would pick up really well, so the only option was to tow at 50MPH in second or 70 in 3rd.

Not that I would do the latter of course

Petrov · 10 November 2005, 07:19

I am driving around with trailer pretty much and its boats from small to big, i am driving a Chevy Tahoe with the 5,3 liters Vortec automatic petrol, its not the most economical car when it comes to fuel, insurance etc etc but in the long run i feel that it is worth every sent if you look to the comfort.
Sweden is a long country and its not uncommon that we trail 1000km.
Same car with a diesel would be a better choice than the petrol.

Mollers · 10 November 2005, 07:29

We have one of each, a manual L200 and an auto X5. For pure towing the auto is much better, much less strain on the clutch, transmission etc. Pulling away on a hill with a boat on the back and the clutch will smell on the L200. The l200 is more of a tool off road but purely due to it's more suitable tyres. For towing-Auto.

jwalker · 10 November 2005, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

...I disagree about living in the past re fuel/suitability. For example the diesel Audi A4 auto I had averaged only about 38mpg whilst the manual version was nearer 48mpg. This was mainly motorway work - about town it is possibly the other way around!!!

Well I owned a Peugeot Auto with the 2.1diesel, 46mpg cruising. My wife's wee 1.9 Citroen auto gives 44mpg.

Quote:

Also the Discovery TD5 auto was criticised for being slow(ZF auto) at first so they remapped it which gave it similar performance to the manual - result 22mpg instead of 30.

I happen to own one of these. You are wrong.

My main vehicle is a Jeep CRD auto and it returns 35 cruising and 25 towing.

Jackwabbit's comment about never quite being the correct gear when towing can be valid. My 3.9 petrol RR was like that. It had to reach 50 to get into top gear. A tad lower and it would pop out. My older 3.5 RR was excellent. It changed into top (3rd) at about 35 and stayed there unless the throttle was opened wide.

hard1 · 10 November 2005, 11:37

I have the same "hunting" problem on the Bighorn and it seems to be a design issue making the box overly sensitive to throttle inputs. In the case of the Isuzu there is a speed sensor which controls these things, and people who have changed them out report calmer shifting performance. However, I agree that for towing, an auto reigns supreme and it's good off road also, especially if you have toys such as re-programmable shifts, hold-in-gear etc etc. Most engines and drive train components last many times longer in an auto than a manual. In this day and age of technology, I see no reason any more for manual g/boxes on the public road.

codprawn · 10 November 2005, 11:49

A question for those people with "hunting problems" - do you just leave it it Drive or do you bother changing down and using it like a manual???

hard1 · 10 November 2005, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

A question for those people with "hunting problems" - do you just leave it it Drive or do you bother changing down and using it like a manual???

No matter, it's still throttle sensitive whichever gear you run it in. Dropping a gear merely holds it in a lower gear with 1 change below that (for 3 speed boxes). I suppose if you dropped it into 1st gear you wouldn't have any problems with the box changing gear ever. Problem solved.

codprawn · 10 November 2005, 12:14

Most modern 4 speed autos use top as an overdrive and you should lock it down into 3rd for towing - if it is still hunting between 2 and 3 you have to either speed up or slow down and lock down into 2nd - the constant hunting is what causes heat build up.

It is all down to driving technique and it is suprising how many people just leave an auto in D and let it get on with it - they never bother to change down to save the brakes either!!!

codprawn · 10 November 2005, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Well I owned a Peugeot Auto with the 2.1diesel, 46mpg cruising. My wife's wee 1.9 Citroen auto gives 44mpg.

I happen to own one of these. You are wrong.

My main vehicle is a Jeep CRD auto and it returns 35 cruising and 25 towing.

Jackwabbit's comment about never quite being the correct gear when towing can be valid. My 3.9 petrol RR was like that. It had to reach 50 to get into top gear. A tad lower and it would pop out. My older 3.5 RR was excellent. It changed into top (3rd) at about 35 and stayed there unless the throttle was opened wide.

Obviously I drive vehicles a bit harder than you.

How can you blankly state "you are wrong" because you own ONE of these??? I had BOTH the manual and the auto a short time apart - ok maybe I drive harder than most but I drove the auto the same as the manual - and there ARE differences.

Mollers · 10 November 2005, 12:38

It's all down to the Auto gear box. Our BMW has an "Adaptive" box which can be programmed for driving styles. With the boat on the back it is perfect. It's a five speed auto, it'll go up a known hill a gear lower with the boat on than with no boat, just like a manual. Dab the brakes and it kicks down going down hill to give engine brake which takes a bit of getting used to, clever though. I may add that the box was replaced at 23k miles due to a fault

.

codprawn · 10 November 2005, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollulnan

It's all down to the Auto gear box. Our BMW has an "Adaptive" box which can be programmed for driving styles. With the boat on the back it is perfect. It's a five speed auto, it'll go up a known hill a gear lower with the boat on than with no boat, just like a manual. Dab the brakes and it kicks down going down hill to give engine brake which takes a bit of getting used to, clever though. I may add that the box was replaced at 23k miles due to a fault

.

Modern electronics make people SO lazy!!! Yes they do work well but you can get just as much - if not more control by actually moving the stick yourself!!!

You are the 3rd person now I have heard that from!!! I take it you mean the X5? See if that had been a Range Rover by now people would have set up a website to destroy their image!!!

I have driven the X5 several times and was very impressed BUT what is it trying to be? It is too high to be a sports car but there is no way it could ever be called an offroader!!!