Twatsoo 60hp won't fire up

[spartacus]

Was at the stage of mounting my 2006 Twatsoo 2-stroke engine onto the Ribcraft 4.8m to progress the build. Wanted to adjust the trim/tilt, but all I get is a 'clicking' sound. The battery has a good charge, all cables connected properly. I keep thinking it must be an in-line fuse, as the engine won't start either? Just turns over but fails to fire. Plugs are fine, fresh fuel, etc.

Would it be a solenoid, or is there another in-line fuse we missed?

Any help greatly appreciated.

[Downhilldai]

The clicking sound will be the relay energising, so you're getting power from the trim swich to the relay, but if that's all then theres no power from the battery to the trim pump motor.

Are you getting a spark when the motor turns on the starter?

[outboardtech]

START Basics , FUEL ???? , COMPRESSION ( WHAT ARE THEY 0 AND spark ??? . Thats all you need for an Outboard to run

[yoyo]

Have you got a spark? Is the choke on? Press the key up before firing her up. If you dont hear a "click" the choke solenoid isn't energising. It could be helpfull to syrenge a little fuel directly into the cylinders via the spark plug holes.

[spartacus]

Thanks for the tips folks.

Looks like we may have missed the choke. Just double-checked the manual online. I see the key needs to be pressed in for choke. For how long though, until start-up, then simply release?

Still have a query with the trim and tilt. Surely this will operate, irrespective of whether the engine is running? When it was first connected to the battery, I adjusted the trim on the engine itself (not the control unit) and it dropped half and inch. Now all I get is a click when trying to activate trim. Surely this is a broken wire or connection somewhere?

This engine had been mounted on a stand for over 10 months. Prior to that it was running, and we disconnected the fuel supply and ran her dry (fuel that is). I will swap fuel tanks and top up with fresh fuel for piece of mind.

Will revisit this again next weekend, as it's a two-man job to manoeuvre the engine into position ready for mounting on the transom. Reluctant to mount the engine until the trim and tilt issue is fixed, as I don't want to manually adjust the trim, just to get it back into the garage.

Happy days, was smelling of petrol and 2-stroke oil again. Come to daddy!

[yoyo]

[QUOTE=spartacus;373147] Thanks for the tips folks.

Looks like we may have missed the choke. I see the key needs to be pressed in for choke. For how long though, until start-up, then simply release?

Yes Keep the key pushed up until she fires, and give her plenty of throtle also.

[9D280]

I assume everything wiring wise is new?

If your main switch is old, there's a high chance it;s corroded, so when you use anything heavy duy,, I wonlt bore you with Ohms law, but the voltage goes to the swirch rather then where it;s supposed to be.

I got that with my old Suz 25. Solenoid went click, starter hardly so much as hummed. One new switch, all was well.

Having said that, I'd expect both starter & PT to die about the same time if that were the case. Might be dodgy set of contacts i nthe PT solenoid / relay. (or your PT motor draws more than the starter)

I'd look for an inline fuse first.

[spartacus]

Quick update.

Checked the engine again tonight. Hooked up the remote control (checked all the wiring) and it seems fine. It still clicks when using the trim/tilt function on the remote or using the switch on the side of the engine.

Didn't bother trying to start the engine as I've removed the thermostat to clean it and will need a new gasket.

The only inline fuse I can see is intact. I removed it, used an emery board and cleaned the contacts, reinserted, but it still clicks. The clicking noise is coming from the PTT relay pictured.

Is the relay goosed, poor current to it, or insufficient voltage? Had the battery checked recently and it was 85% or 12.3 volts. Life in the old girl yet?

[Downhilldai]

There's enough voltage there to work the PTT.

Is the 'up' relay clicking, but no movement also?

Do you have power to the large Red cable on the relay(s)? The other end of this connects to the main +ve feed from the battery on the starter solenoid.

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

There's enough voltage there to work the PTT.

Is the 'up' relay clicking, but no movement also?

Do you have power to the large Red cable on the relay(s)? The other end of this connects to the main +ve feed from the battery on the starter solenoid.

I'll check again tonight. I'm tempted to remove both relays, clean up terminals and reinstall. Had a look last night and it's nice and clean. There's a plastic cover over the electrics and it feels as though it's been sprayed with Quicksilver Corrosion Guard or WD40 at some point.

How do I go about testing if there's power from the main live feed (red cable)? I assume you mean from the relays themselves.

Can't see whay the relays would be faulty? It was working sweet as a nut before it was laid up for 10 months. PTT wasn't an issue before.

[Downhilldai]

You can test for power with a test lead (a couple of cables attached to a bulb) or a multimeter, set to DC Volts. when the motor was last de-commissioned, if the main battery lead was removed from the starter solenoid, then the red lead which feeds 12v+ to the trim motor relays may have also been detached at his point and when the main battery lead was recently re-connected, perhaps the red lead to the relays was not similarly re-connected to the same terminal?
The feed from the PTT switch(es) will energise the relays, but if there's no heavy duty supply from the battery, then there's nothing to power the trim motor.

Hope that makes sense?

[yoyo]

Does the trim not work on either the throtle control trim switch or the local trim switch on the engine? Im not sure if you have tried both?

I ask because the local switch on my twatsooo engine packed in and needed a strip down and clean earlier this year.

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

You can test for power with a test lead (a couple of cables attached to a bulb) or a multimeter, set to DC Volts. when the motor was last de-commissioned, if the main battery lead was removed from the starter solenoid, then the red lead which feeds 12v+ to the trim motor relays may have also been detached at his point and when the main battery lead was recently re-connected, perhaps the red lead to the relays was not similarly re-connected to the same terminal?
The feed from the PTT switch(es) will energise the relays, but if there's no heavy duty supply from the battery, then there's nothing to power the trim motor.

Hope that makes sense?

Tested this again tonight. Both PTT 'up' and 'down' relays click which suggest they are operating and not the root cause. When the engine was last used, the remote control was disconnected. All other wiring was intact (and the trim had been working prior to transit). Checked the in-line fuse again and it's fine.

I need to test the PTT motor itself. Found this online:

To test the motor itself, bypassing the relays and relay wiring, find the two heavy gauge wires that lead to the trim/tilt pump motor. One should be green and the other blue. You will probably be able to find a quick disconnect plug near where the wires exit the outboard engine cover that you can disconnect. Ground one wire to any metal surface and provide +12 volts from the battery to the other. The motor should run in one direction or the other. Now reverse the wires and the motor should run in the other direction. This will at least tell you if the motor is operating, so that you will have a better idea of what the actual problem might be.

Assuming I've interpreted this properly, I attached a jump wire to the green wire and ground it to a metal surface. I then applied the blue wire to the (+) terminal on the 12v battery. Nothing. Tried switching the wires. Again, nothing. Have I done this right? Is the motor faulty? The engine itself is immaculate. I just can't see that the motor has failed. Are they servicible items, or sealed units?

Originally Posted by yoyo

Does the trim not work on either the throttle control trim switch or the local trim switch on the engine? I'm not sure if you have tried both?

Pretty sure it's not the switch on the engine or the remote. Both work and get a 'click' noise in the up or down position. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by spartacus

Assuming I've interpreted this properly, I attached a jump wire to the green wire and ground it to a metal surface. I then applied the blue wire to the (+) terminal on the 12v battery. Nothing. Tried switching the wires. Again, nothing. Have I done this right? Is the motor faulty? The engine itself is immaculate. I just can't see that the motor has failed. Are they servicible items, or sealed units?

Coming to the conclusion that the motor is at fault means you are making the following assumptions:

(1) the battery definitely has enough juice. if I follow correctly it was at 12.3V a few weeks ago, since then you've been trying to turn it over presumably depleting it further.

(2) the ground connection between the battery and engine is good. given your problems come after rerigging the engine I'd not jump to that conclusion.

I'd be inclined to put a multimeter directly on the battery and read the voltage with everything off. Then the voltage at the battery when the PTT switch is depressed (if it drops then there is "juice" going somewhere. Then measure the voltage just before the ptt relay (big red wire?) back to a good earth point on the engine (it should be virtually identical to the voltage at the engine). Now measure the voltage at the motor (those green/blue wires). When you press the PTT switch that should be the same as it was at the battery with the PTT depressed (or very close).

If I wanted to test the motor specifically I'd use a different known good battery connected directly with short leads (e.g. a jump start pack).

[Downhilldai]

I believe your online instructions are wrong.

Did you test the red cable on both relays to check if there's 12v +ve there?

Another check for you:
Disconnect the green cable from the down relay and take this direct to the terminal for the heavy red cable (running from the battery) on the starter solenoid. The motor should go down.
If this works ok, try the same for the blue cable to check if it goes up.
If both tests result in the PTT working, then there's a problem between the battery (starter solenoid) and the trim relays.....

If it doesn't work, then as Polly says, check the -ve connections between the battery, the powerhead and the trim motor.

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Coming to the conclusion that the motor is at fault means you are making the following assumptions:

(1) the battery definitely has enough juice. if I follow correctly it was at 12.3V a few weeks ago, since then you've been trying to turn it over presumably depleting it further.

(2) the ground connection between the battery and engine is good. given your problems come after rerigging the engine I'd not jump to that conclusion.

I'd be inclined to put a multimeter directly on the battery and read the voltage with everything off. Then the voltage at the battery when the PTT switch is depressed (if it drops then there is "juice" going somewhere. Then measure the voltage just before the ptt relay (big red wire?) back to a good earth point on the engine (it should be virtually identical to the voltage at the engine). Now measure the voltage at the motor (those green/blue wires). When you press the PTT switch that should be the same as it was at the battery with the PTT depressed (or very close).

If I wanted to test the motor specifically I'd use a different known good battery connected directly with short leads (e.g. a jump start pack).

Only tried to start the engine on Sunday. No lack of power to get the starter motor going. Prior to this the battery had been on a trickle charge for a few hours each weekend. I got the battery tested on a digital multimeter at a local garage. They said it was 85% efficient and measured 12.3v. Back on a trickle charge just now. Think I need to invest in a multimeter!

I only tried it for a few attempts on Sunday and have concluded that there was no choke applied, or the warm lever was in the upright position. I'm sure she'll fire up okay, but started tinkering and removed the thermostat for a closer inspection, hence I now need a gasket and can't follow this up until I've refitted it.

Back to the tilt and trim. I'll get a multimeter and do some readings. Thanks for the help.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by spartacus

Only tried to start the engine on Sunday. No lack of power to get the starter motor going. Prior to this the battery had been on a trickle charge for a few hours each weekend. I got the battery tested on a digital multimeter at a local garage. They said it was 85% efficient and measured 12.3v. Back on a trickle charge just now. Think I need to invest in a multimeter!

I only tried it for a few attempts on Sunday and have concluded that there was no choke applied, or the warm lever was in the upright position. I'm sure she'll fire up okay, but started tinkering and removed the thermostat for a closer inspection, hence I now need a gasket and can't follow this up until I've refitted it.

Back to the tilt and trim. I'll get a multimeter and do some readings. Thanks for the help.

Ah - hadn't realised that you were working blind without a multimeter. they cost about a fiver for a cheap one and I think are almost essential for boat diagnostics! You could do some of DHD's tests without one though.

12.3 V doesn't sound great to me for a battery which has been on charge for a while? it sounds about what mine will be after sitting for 3 months. A week after a good run, it would be at 12.7 V.

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

I believe your online instructions are wrong.

Did you test the red cable on both relays to check if there's 12v +ve there?

Another check for you:
Disconnect the green cable from the down relay and take this direct to the terminal for the heavy red cable (running from the battery) on the starter solenoid. The motor should go down.
If this works ok, try the same for the blue cable to check if it goes up.
If both tests result in the PTT working, then there's a problem between the battery (starter solenoid) and the trim relays.....

If it doesn't work, then as Polly says, check the -ve connections between the battery, the powerhead and the trim motor.

This is like talking down a 747 with me at the controls... "can you see a red flashing light above you with the words 'warning' on it?"

Seriously though. Just reconnected the battery terminals and put the blue cable back on to the relay and placed the green one onto the starter solenoid. Nothing.

Yes the battery is probably due for replacement. Will get a multimeter tomorrow night at Halfrauds and take if from there. I hate bleed'n electrics.

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by spartacus

Just reconnected the battery terminals and put the blue cable back on to the relay and placed the green one onto the starter solenoid. Nothing.

In that case, suggest you look for:

1. Flat battery - unlikely, given the recent test on it.

2. Defective wiring between relays and trim motor - unlikely, as it won't go up or down.

2. Defective trim motor - unlikely, given it was working when you de-commissioned the motor and it's been living indoors since. But, it could be 'stuck' in position.

3. Dodgy earth (12v -ve) connection somewhere between the trim motor and the battery. Leave the green cable on the heavy gauge Red cable and if you have one, try connecting a separate cable from the body of the PTT motor, direct to the battery -ve terminal, or to the -ve connection for the main battery cable on the powerhead.

[9D280]

If youre going to Halfords to buy a meter, the test becomes relatively easy:

Disconnect the motor at the quick connector. Put the two probes into the supply side of the connector, and hit the up or down switch. One should give +12(ish) the other -12(ish).

If you haven't already bought it, a simple digital meter would be best, as an analouge one will try to go backwards off the scale if connected with the + probe on the -ve side. A digi one will just put a "-" in front of the digits & carry on.