Being pursued regarding 'stolen' rib 7 years later?? - Help! - Page 2

ribber · 11 December 2011, 18:22

As the boat has now been 'found' would it not simply be the case that it is returned to the owner who reported it stolen.

If the rightful owner had claimed his loss against his insurance company and agreed the settlement, then it would now be the property of the insurance company.

All other's unwittingly involved 'up the chain' would have no say in the matter. The last one in, being the one who looses out, being that he now can't legally sell it on.

It seems to me, a letter from a solicitor demanding 14 days notice is rather childish to say the least. Being that you could not possible have a chance to investigate your own situation or study the facts presented from this chasing solicitor.

I suspect he may be trying it on for his client as he was the last one in the chain to loose out and noting you only held the boat for for a few months over the winter before you sold it on. Which, rightly or wrongly, looks like trading.

I'm guessing, but the last one in will just have to right off his loss and you would just have been an innocent party.

Completely different I suspect, if you were trading!

Poly · 11 December 2011, 18:56

I mentioned this to someone today who highlighted a scam I was previously unaware of.

Person A has a boat which he legitimately owns and sells to person B. As soon as person B collects the boat person A, reports the boat stolen to his insurance company who pay out (therefore he gets "two lots of money"). Apparently this form of insurance fraud is quite well known with high value, hard to trace items like boats.

If that was the case in this situation, which would tie into the credible back history the original vendor has, then the boat has never been stolen; and if you have receipts etc this should be established and I suspect the insurance company would be rather keen to help pursue it. Bearing in mind that the original vendor (if guilty) could be looking at a prison sentence you need to consider how you make any approach to him.

biffer · 12 December 2011, 07:59

I think I would wait and go to court with it

sent from a remote device

bedajim · 12 December 2011, 08:11

Spend your couple of Hundred pounds on a meeting with a good brief (do remember what he says will change as any facts come to light) and also go to the police as an upright member of the comunity why shouldn't you.

Don't listen to the bar room experts either.

biffer · 12 December 2011, 08:26

Yes go to the police there is definitely something not quite right about all this. The police should have been the first port of call after all if this is all legit everyone who sold (it apart from the primary source )has handled stolen property and everyone who purchased it has received If the police investigate and find there is no case to answer then he guy will be free to sell it

sent from a remote device

Boats&Outboards · 12 December 2011, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

Yes go to the police there is definitely something not quite right about all this. The police should have been the first port of call after all if this is all legit everyone who sold (it apart from the primary source )has handled stolen property and everyone who purchased it has received If the police investigate and find there is no case to answer then he guy will be free to sell it

sent from a remote device

Not quite my take on it Biff. I agree I personally would wait for court but it's likely I'll lose. Yes the police won't take any action regarding criminal charges for handling stolen goods but they will recover the boat to the rightful owner if it's proven to be one. If they don't find the owner it will go on the bumblebee.

I think it's all above board and the OP maybe knew more of the issue then a letter as the first point of contact, just find it strange the first thing his seller would do is instruct a legal money-pit before even a call to the seller, although clearly he's innocent in all of this too (the seller/OP)

What engine did it have fitted ? What year was the boat ? What did you sell it for ? What sites did you check when you first bought it ? I can see several Avon 560's outstanding. One with a Yam 115 2 Stroke fitted which is what yours had right ?

Peter ~ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

Jizm · 12 December 2011, 09:44

I was involved in a similar thing to this in the late nineties with a bike.
The outcome was:
-insurance company took the bike.
-Each buyer had to pay back the previous buyer what they paid for it.
-There were four until it got back to the seller who knew it was iffy...
-Dodgy seller got hit with all the fees, doubt he paid them.
-Insurance company offered the bike back to each buyer starting with the last one.

Hope this helps, and yes it took bloody ages...

SIBer · 12 December 2011, 19:47

Good luck and do keep us posted with events. We can all learn from this.

Boats&Outboards · 12 December 2011, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jizm

I was involved in a similar thing to this in the late nineties with a bike.
The outcome was:
-insurance company took the bike.
-Each buyer had to pay back the previous buyer what they paid for it.
-There were four until it got back to the seller who knew it was iffy...
-Dodgy seller got hit with all the fees, doubt he paid them.
-Insurance company offered the bike back to each buyer starting with the last one.

Hope this helps, and yes it took bloody ages...

Exactly what I've been trying to say right from the start. If its genuine, It's a nightmare

Peter ~ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

Jizm · 12 December 2011, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards

Exactly what I've been trying to say right from the start. If its genuine, It's a nightmare

Peter ~ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

It ain't going to be a quick resolve that's for sure.

Blue Lightning · 12 December 2011, 20:34

Sorry I haven't replied earlier - been away for a couple of days.
Thank you to everyone for taking the time and putting in the effort with all of your views and comments. All much appreciated.
I am, as a first port of call going to instruct a solicitor, and then proceed according to advice given by them.
All of the comments and thoughts posted so far (keep them coming!) I will collate and pass on to the legal guys as appropriate, to help them assess things.
I will let you know how things go, but I have a horrible feeling that it's going to be an expensive, stressful and long process.

Blue Lightning · 12 December 2011, 21:14

Does anyone know of any databases for stolen boats other than stolenboat.org ?

SIBer · 12 December 2011, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Lightning

Does anyone know of any databases for stolen boats other than stolenboat.org ?

Your own boat insurance company may be able to help. Whilst they can't give specifics there will be an industry site. When taking out insurance I've noticed that they ask for serial numbers.

richyrich · 12 December 2011, 22:27

If you acted in good faith you may be OK. The legal principle is that you can't sell something that isn't yours (and you can't get better title than the vendor (so a thief can never pass good title to anyone lower down the chain like you). My view would be that you are in breach of contract to your purchaser only, and he is statue barred (ie 6 years have passed) since you sold something that wasn't yours to sell. It is many years since I studied this area of law but I would agree with whoever said CAB should be able to give you good free advice. Alternatively many house insurance (and boat insurance) policies have legal advice insurance cover incuded, which may even cover defence of this sort of claim. Normally what happens here is that the insurer seeks out the present possessor and they have to give it back (no statute of limitation here because the object still belongs to them as by paying out to original rightful owner they acquired title). There is no way the police would be interested in this - it is a purely civil matter.

biffer · 13 December 2011, 08:39

Have you though about going over to see the guy with the boat and ask him why he went down the road he has.
Solicitors rub there hands together over these cases. It will cost you dearly

sent from a remote device

Blue Lightning · 13 December 2011, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

Have you though about going over to see the guy with the boat and ask him why he went down the road he has.
Solicitors rub there hands together over these cases. It will cost you dearly

sent from a remote device

I could probably find the guy I sold it to as he is a local publican, but as its been 7 years I don't think the softly softly approach will work ....

biffer · 13 December 2011, 10:37

Don't know till you try.

sent from a remote device

boristhebold · 13 December 2011, 17:35

Looking at things on the web and speaking to a friend of mine who is a solicitor it may well be the case of they sue you, you pay them, you sue the person you bought it from, they pay you, they sue the person they bought if from and so on and so on, rather ugly if its changed hands a few times. The key point to the matter is you wont be prosecuted by the police as youve acted in good faith but as you did not have the legal right to sell the item as you did not have 'good title' as it was stolen you can be sued and the person you bought it from can be sued and so on and so on. Whish is why who bought if from you is contacting you via a solicitor and its not the police who is contacting you as first of all the person has obviously got some advice and it is a civil matter until eventually it could be proved or not who the person was who originally stole it.

Very simple and why you never see a poor solicitor.

In the end no body wins only the solicitors ...

Good luck

boristhebold · 13 December 2011, 17:39

And like Biffer says it would be better to try and settle without solicitors and civil courts etc so approaching the guy you sold it to and having a chat might be a way of avoiding the costs of solicitors which will be expensive on both sides. 1 hour sir that will be £200 to £300 an hour, a letter posting sir we charge £50.00 etc etc, will soon add up. After that you could then sue who ever sold it to you etc

Poly · 13 December 2011, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

Have you though about going over to see the guy with the boat and ask him why he went down the road he has.
Solicitors rub there hands together over these cases. It will cost you dearly

I have to say if someone I sold something to 7 yrs ago appeared out the woodwork demanding money back they'd be not very politely told where to go. Its only by involving a solicitor that the "claim" gets credibility in the first place. Its only by involving his own solicitor that he can be sure he is not paying out more than needed (e.g. if he only has to pay the "loss" ie. what he can't sell it for today, not the original sum; if there is not really enough proof it is stolen etc). I don't particularly like solicitors either - but the "ideal" response from the current "owner" is that you get scared and give him exactly what his solicitor has asked for. I don't think the current "owner" has done anything dodgy by instructing a solicitor, in fact its a more reasonable than just turning up outside your house demanding money!

Quote:

Originally Posted by boristhebold

And like Biffer says it would be better to try and settle without solicitors and civil courts etc so approaching the guy you sold it to and having a chat might be a way of avoiding the costs of solicitors which will be expensive on both sides. 1 hour sir that will be £200 to £300 an hour, a letter posting sir we charge £50.00 etc etc, will soon add up. After that you could then sue who ever sold it to you etc

Without legal advice you could end up paying out for something that you didn't need to (and therefore can't recoup back down the chain). Some, or maybe all, of your legal costs will also be recoverable from whoever is down the chain IF you can find them and IF they have the funds to pay up.