An idea - Alderney Cannonball Challenge

[GJ0KYZ]

Malthouse, don't you think the whole idea is a bit, well, irresponsible? Encouraging visitors to race around Alderney on limited fuel seems a bit mad to me. Who is going to rescue boats if they conk out? What does the Harbourmaster think?

[Channel Ribs]

Your right, of course.

I had thought that people would have ready access to their built in tanks, as the web page says full awareness of the local features would be needed.

But yes, the whole thing about using limited fosil fuels is irrisponsible. Not sure what I was thinking.

Thank you.

[GJ0KYZ]

Instead of messing about with fuel tanks why don't you work out a handicap system like they have in sailing?

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by GJ0KYZ

Instead of messing about with fuel tanks why don't you work out a handicap system like they have in sailing?

Thanks, but you were right the first time - it was all about the fuel.

[Channel Ribs]

With a handicap system like we use for sailing events it would be a race, the idea was to bring economy into the process and thus describing it as a challenge.

Most RIBs are capable of doing 10nm on 16 liters, in some cases this means holding back from WOT. In others it is enough to go around twice.

I am not sure how a powerboat challenge is so different from a yacht race when it comes to encouraging people to be irresponsible, but the last thing the island needs is more wrecks so I guess we shall leave the round the island activities to the boats with big keels and inability to go upwind from hazards.

In defense of skippers who are capable of making a cross channel passage, I think they probably are up to the job of working within a limited fuel supply, understanding the conditions of the day and the local geography.

Originally Posted by GJ0KYZ

What does the Harbourmaster think?

At the moment we have a show of interest and a date, if local support continues then we will run the whole thing past the harbour office and put in place whatever measures they would like. If they are not happy then the event will not happen.

Thanks again for the feedback.

[Poly]

Malthouse, I think it is a really clever idea - and opens up the challenge to a whole load of people who wouldn't / couldn't compete in a traditional race (and presumably may make insurance etc easier!).

I think I was the first person to suggest that doing it on marginal fuel might lead to problems - but I assumed you would allow (or insist) on people carrying reserves (not sure how much you will just trust people not to switch to these or top up their 'challenge tank') - although anyone that does is probably taking the event too seriously!

If anyone really though 16L was marginal (seems unlikely as most people here claim roughly 1nm/L or better when cruising) then you could allow them to take a larger tank with the proviso that if the do use >16L then they are extremely heavily penalised or even disqualified.

Why just ribs though? If I had a "fast fisher" or something then I might feel I was missing out?

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Polwart

...allow (or insist) on people carrying reserves (not sure how much you will just trust people not to switch to these or top up...

Why just ribs though? If I had a "fast fisher" or something then I might feel I was missing out?

You are right, there is no reason to exclude any boats. At the very least it will increase the chance of learning something new about fuel efficiency in the real world.

As for fuel, the thinking at the moment is to encourage boats to carry a good reserve in their usual tanks (weight issues are up to the skipper).

The "challenge tank" should be an ordinary portable petrol tank ideally with a reserve baffle/ridge in the bottom, this will be charged with 16.0L and sealed in some way to prevent topping up.

It is then up to the skipper to know how much of the 16 liters his boat will need at what speeds, to plan for that and allow for safe margins within the conditions on the day.

As you say the ratio of 1nm for 1L is a popular rule of thumb, so conking out should be avoidable for all but the most throttle happy drivers. Anyone who would not undertake a passage of 100 miles with fuel of less than 160L should think very carefully about the suitability of their boat for such a challenge.

A quick boat is going to get around in about 20 mins, so the engine of this theoretical boat would need to consume nearly 50 lph in order for the challenge tank to be sucked dry; ie a 115HP two stroke.

My own boat does 1:1 at 20 knots, so I would anticipate having 6L left and to take half an hour to get round. I would describe this as fairly common economy and not exactly prize winning.

[Erin]

I have to say, I wasn't sure you were entirely serious with this 'challenge' when first posted. However, I do like the idea, though my only concern would be trying to swap fuel supplies if I ran out in say the race or swinge. A couple of minutes buggering about with fuel pipe/connections could have serious implications. Also, for those of us with built in tanks and concealed/ducted pipework, it ain't that easy to just plug a tank in and go.

Not trying to 'dis' your idea. Perhaps some sort of nautical treasure hunt. Maybe a challenge to take photos of certain things or transits that can only be seen from the sea, or a series of clues/instructions left on pot markers with the treasure on an easily accessible beach (Saye, Corblets etc)

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Erin

I have to say, I wasn't sure you were entirely serious with this 'challenge' when first posted....

Not trying to 'dis' your idea.

No worries

At the moment it is still very much an outline plan, so everything is on the table still.

The treasure hunt is a cracking idea, I would have slight concerns about picking a route round these parts that still left the burden of responsibility with the skipper though.

With fuel change over, how many outboards do not have a fuel connector on the engine? The main, built in, tank's fuel line would be right next to it and ready to connect in a jiffy.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by malthouse

No worries
With fuel change over, how many outboards do not have a fuel connector on the engine? The main, built in, tank's fuel line would be right next to it and ready to connect in a jiffy.

Erm, mine for a start. The fuel line is jubilee clipped to the inlet. I thought most o/bs above 90hp have direct connection and no quick release.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Erin

Erm, mine for a start. The fuel line is jubilee clipped to the inlet. I thought most o/bs above 90hp have direct connection and no quick release.

Oh bother.

[GJ0KYZ]

Originally Posted by Erin

I have to say, I wasn't sure you were entirely serious with this 'challenge' when first posted. However, I do like the idea, though my only concern would be trying to swap fuel supplies if I ran out in say the race or swinge. A couple of minutes buggering about with fuel pipe/connections could have serious implications. Also, for those of us with built in tanks and concealed/ducted pipework, it ain't that easy to just plug a tank in and go.

Not trying to 'dis' your idea. Perhaps some sort of nautical treasure hunt. Maybe a challenge to take photos of certain things or transits that can only be seen from the sea, or a series of clues/instructions left on pot markers with the treasure on an easily accessible beach (Saye, Corblets etc)

Malthouse - I'm not trying to 'dis' your idea either and I'm sorry if you took it that way. The reason why I enquired about the Harbourmaster is that here in Jersey things are getting so insane that soon we will have to log our next port of call with Jersey Coastguard 24hrs in advance of our leaving port (I kid you not). Mention the word 'race' in the same sentence as 'RIB' and the 'ealth and safety brigade this end will think Christmas has come early. I do agree with Erin that changing tanks whilst one is 'in extremus' in the Swinge or Race could be a bit necky to say the least, but I suppose we're all grown ups who should know what we're doing.

I think the treasure hunt idea is a good one and since any ribbers who come from the UK will be staying overnight you could always organise a little 'tours des ports' the next day. You know, maybe Goury, Dielette, and Herm then back to Alderney for a nosh up and a few beers.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by GJ0KYZ

Malthouse - I'm not trying to 'dis' your idea either and I'm sorry if you took it that way.

Thanks for that, I did not take offense. I agree that it may well be irresponsible, but maintain that it is an interesting idea that could show something constructive. Not sure how to balance challenging with safe, but that is where this forum excels - with huge knowledge base.

The harbour office may well object, but it will not deter me from coming up with ideas and offering to organize events.

Now that e-borders have been dropped the whole 24 hours notice to travel may well disappear, but I must say that I have always found Jersey CG to be very helpful.

Erin's news that his and many other's engines are not blessed with a quick fuel connector is a blow, I seem to be forever changing connectors when doing services so over estimated the ubiquitousness of the devices.

[Avocet]

Isn't an easier solution for everyone to start with a full tank and then see how much fuel is needed to refill after the run?

Not only should this prevent anyone from running out of fuel but avoids the need to switch tanks at all.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Avocet

Isn't an easier solution for everyone to start with a full tank and then see how much fuel is needed to refill after the run?

Star Prize.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Avocet

... see how much fuel is needed to refill after the run...

This is going down well locally. I did wonder if there was a morbid fascination with watching people conk out all around the island.

The only problem is that with no water-side petrol pump we will need a way to accurately refill each boat, any ideas?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by malthouse

The only problem is that with no water-side petrol pump we will need a way to accurately refill each boat, any ideas?

If you're assuming each boat will use about 10L I would have thought a jerry can weighed before and after refilling was the best way. For boats running on a portable tank they could simply weigh that before and after the event - saving some of the messing about.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Polwart

If you're assuming each boat will use about 10L I would have thought a jerry can weighed before and after refilling was the best way.

I have in mind a set of hanging balance scales, to be accompanied by someone who calls out "remove the supports!".

[Duck Witch]

So your saying if my RIB weighs the same as a duck, that means i must be a witch!?

[Channel Ribs]

I have updated the web page to reflect the fuel situation.

So who fancies it? Spring b/h (May 30th).