4x4 Advice - Hilux Surfs, Isuzu Troopers, Nissan Patrols

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Ok, being as I'm only 20 on saturday, I don't think my insurance company would approve!

Hard enough getting insurance on a go-kart being a young male driver...

Some of the cars here look like serious bits of kit! I'm getting a good vibe from the trooper, still not entirely convinced about the Disco though!

If you buy a Land Rover over 10 yrs old you can get it on classic car insurance but it musn't be your only vehicle and you are limited to about 10,000 miles a year.

I was getting quotes of as high as £900 for my 3.5L V8 110 - third party only!!! NFU came up with £400 so was about to go with them until I discovered Firebond - ended up paying £140 fully comp!!!!!!!!!!!!

One thing I would like to say that is usually overlooked by people who constantly slag off landrovers - when buying a used Land Rover you have to be careful as they are FAR more likely to have been abused than a similar Jap vehicle - very very few of the Jap vehicles are EVER used as anything other than a normal car - Land Rovers are often used for what they were built for.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that a vehicle that has towed 3 tons every day and been driven along beaches and through bogs isn't going to be in as good nuck as a vehicle used as a car!!!

Of course there are plenty of Discoverys out there that have only ever done a school run and nothing more.

If you know what you are doing buy a Land Rover - if you don't then buy a JAP car - they have lots of pretty toys.

[hard1]

Originally Posted by codprawn

If you know what you are doing buy a Land Rover - if you don't then buy a JAP car - they have lots of pretty toys.

Listen up guys - he knows what he's talking about - he has a mate who's brother's uncle used to know someone who was 2nd cousin to the guy that assembled Landies on a Friday...

Plus, his best mates mate's girlfriends brother had a Suzuki Rhino, the best off road vehicle ever made his mother reckoned.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by hard1

Listen up guys - he knows what he's talking about - he has a mate who's brother's uncle used to know someone who was 2nd cousin to the guy that assembled Landies on a Friday...

Plus, his best mates mate's girlfriends brother had a Suzuki Rhino, the best off road vehicle ever made his mother reckoned.

A very helpful and enlightening post.........

PATHETIC!!!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by hard1

Listen up guys - he knows what he's talking about - he has a mate who's brother's uncle used to know someone who was 2nd cousin to the guy that assembled Landies on a Friday...

Plus, his best mates mate's girlfriends brother had a Suzuki Rhino, the best off road vehicle ever made his mother reckoned.

Steady Hard1 you will be accused of being boring having said that it hard not to be when CP comes up with such utter crap all the time

Originally Posted by crapprawn

..... ....... - when buying a used Land Rover you have to be careful as they are FAR more likely to have been abused than a similar Jap vehicle - .........Land Rovers are often used for what they were built for.

Land Rover themselves recognise that 95% of their product is never used off road and this is reflected in the range of vehicle they now sell, sports range, disco 3 are so far from their origins that one is a tall sports car and the other a people mover.
Don’t get me wrong I lover Land Rovers but they are crap and far from the answer for everyone.
Des

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

Steady Hard1 you will be accused of being boring having said that it hard not to be when CP comes up with such utter crap all the time

Land Rover themselves recognise that 95% of their product is never used off road and this is reflected in the range of vehicle they now sell, sports range, disco 3 are so far from their origins that one is a tall sports car and the other a people mover.
Don’t get me wrong I lover Land Rovers but they are crap and far from the answer for everyone.
Des

Suppose it depends on where you live - I can assure you that there are PLENTY of places in the UK where Land Rovers DO get used for what they were intended - wether it be launching boats across sandy beaches or pulling horseboxes through muddy fields - not EVERYONE lives in Surrey!!!

I think it was a perfectly valid point saying that a used Land Rover is more likely to have seen offroad use than a used Pajero or similar.

And I am NOT on about the current vehicles - I am on about the ones Jimbo was looking at - 1995 or thereabouts - not many people will have taken a £40,000 vehicle offroad - £5,000 and it becomes MUCH more likely!!!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Suppose it depends on where you live - ......

No it’s based on market research of a representative group of owners, 95% do not go off road.

Originally Posted by codprawn

And I am NOT on about the current vehicles - ........

The reason I mention the current product line-up is to illustrate the fact that there is little demand for true off roaders Des

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

No it’s based on market research of a representative group of owners, 95% do not go off road.

The reason I mention the current product line-up is to illustrate the fact that there is little demand for true off roaders Des

Yes but this does NOT take into account age or value of the vehicle!!! Surely it isn't hard to understand that most people wouldn't take a £40,000 vehicle anywhere it will be damaged but by the time it gets to the 3rd owner and is worth £5,000 then it's a different story.

The market surveys don't take that into account!!!

As to the 95% I am rather dubious - 95% of which vehicles? Don't tell me 95% of people who buy Defenders don't go offroad because I refuse to belive it!!! 95% of the Range Rover Sport fair enough - have you seen how low profile the ttyre are???

[Rodan]

For about 5 grand (and you are not concerned with fuel) you need the ultimate towing/offroad vehicle....

The good old Stally Land Rovers, Jap 4 x 4's stand aside. And if you forget the handbrake on the slip... not a problem... it floats.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Rodan

For about 5 grand (and you are not concerned with fuel) you need the ultimate towing/offroad vehicle....

The good old Stolly Land Rovers, Jap 4 x 4's stand aside. And if you forget the handbrake on the slip... not a problem... it floats.

That's "StAlly".. ..and bring plenty of spare drive shafts/bevel boxes..

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Yes but this does NOT take into account age or value of the vehicle!!! Surely it isn't hard to understand that most people wouldn't take a £40,000 vehicle anywhere it will be damaged but by the time it gets to the 3rd owner and is worth £5,000 then it's a different story.

The market surveys don't take that into account!!!

As to the 95% I am rather dubious - 95% of which vehicles? Don't tell me 95% of people who buy Defenders don't go offroad because I refuse to belive it!!! 95% of the Range Rover Sport fair enough - have you seen how low profile the ttyre are???

I was going to answer your post with an explanation of how the research was carried out and to explain how the relative values that people put on their possession have little bearing on the monetary value, but I can’t be bother, because what every anyone says you are always right and you know all there is to know about everything. Des

[Rodan]

I stand corrected... and also handy to have a REME mechanic on the payroll! I still want one and have done so for at least 20 years... one day.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

I was going to answer your post with an explanation of how the research was carried out and to explain how the relative values that people put on their possession have little bearing on the monetary value, but I can’t be bother, because what every anyone says you are always right and you know all there is to know about everything. Des

So you don't accept that some models of land rover will be used differently to others? You also don't accept that someone who buys a brand new vehicle is less like to trash it that someone who buys one 3rd hand?

Of course there are always some exceptions to the rule!!!

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by codprawn

And I am NOT on about the current vehicles - I am on about the ones Jimbo was looking at - 1995 or thereabouts - not many people will have taken a £40,000 vehicle offroad - £5,000 and it becomes MUCH more likely!!!

This is logical advice I feel. If I was looking at a secondhand mondeo say, I'd naturally be more wary of mechanics than a brand new one, as it is likely to have covered many miles on road.

Therefore it stands to reason that with 4x4's, the older they get, the more likely they are to have been used for their intended purpose. If I bought a showroom condition Rangie in central london, chances are the worst it will have seen is a puddle, however if I'm looking at sub £5000 rangies in hampshire, the situation could be different.

Thanks for your caution codders, and also for taking time to tailor your comments to the type of vehicle I'm after (having narrowed myself down to being fairly specific now!) rather than just going for a general slanging.

Originally Posted by Scary Des

I was going to answer your post with an explanation of how the research was carried out and to explain how the relative values that people put on their possession have little bearing on the monetary value, but I can’t be bother, because what every anyone says you are always right and you know all there is to know about everything. Des

Des, I'd actually love to hear about these figures etc, as I do not know all there is to know about everything (reason I posted this query in the first place!) and have to say that in my uninformed ignorance, I would also assume that a far higher proportion of Defenders than 5% go offroad!

I'm also interested to know who answered this survey, as you mentioned a representative group of owners. Now, I might not explain my thinking right, however, say you want to take a representative group of owners, and you choose the following groups:

Owners of landies for only off road use
Parents worried about kids safety
People who fancy a big car to impress their mates
People who regularly tow stuff
People who want a large internal volume
People who want a high driving position and 7 seats

Now, just say you take 10 people from each of your representative groups (Assuming you have enough groups to make it fair - mine above are just examples). This doesn't give you an accurate survey. The reason for that is it doesn't take into account the number of vehicles in each group, so you have to use a weighting structure for it. This is something that "market researchers" often do not do, they take the same number of people from each group.

Now, I'm not saying this is the case in the figures you have des, I'm just saying it might be, so that's why I'm interested in seeing what you have

[codprawn]

Thanks Jimbo - it seems to be that whenever I genuinely try to help someone all I get is abuse!!! At least you have the insight to see what I am on about!!!

[hard1]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

I was going to answer your post with an explanation of how the research was carried out and to explain how the relative values that people put on their possession have little bearing on the monetary value, but I can’t be bother, because what every anyone says you are always right and you know all there is to know about everything. Des

Sigh. This is unfortunately all too true and Mr Codprawn got me bang to rights when he said:

Originally Posted by codprawn
"If you know what you are doing buy a Land Rover - if you don't then buy a JAP car - they have lots of pretty toys. "

Ipso Facto - I don't know what I'm talking about and he does. QED. Jimbo, please forget everything I said about Isuzus. I'm sorry to have taken up your time. Please listen to the advice of Mr Codprawn, but don't have an opinion that doesn't match his programming otherwise he'll spawn all over you. Is it not now time for a Codprawn forum now? So we can go ask advice on stuff?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by hard1

Sigh. This is unfortunately all too true and Mr Codprawn got me bang to rights when he said:

Originally Posted by codprawn
"If you know what you are doing buy a Land Rover - if you don't then buy a JAP car - they have lots of pretty toys. "

Ipso Facto - I don't know what I'm talking about and he does. QED. Jimbo, please forget everything I said about Isuzus. I'm sorry to have taken up your time. Please listen to the advice of Mr Codprawn, but don't have an opinion that doesn't match his programming otherwise he'll spawn all over you. Is it not now time for a Codprawn forum now? So we can go ask advice on stuff?

Maybe you misinterprated my advice - looking at it I can see it is a bit misleading BUT if you had read it all in context you would see what I was getting at.

When I said "if you know what you are doing" maybe I should have said - "if you know what you are looking for". Basically i was advsing him to only buy a Land Rover IF he knew enough about them to check for abuse etc etc!!!

[hard1]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Maybe you misinterprated my advice - looking at it I can see it is a bit misleading BUT if you had read it all in context you would see what I was getting at.

Yes of course, this is becoming a regular mantra now with us not only not knowing what we're doing but always misinterpreting your comments as well.

Anyway la li la li la li la.. what a loverly day it is here in downtown Lymington. The sky is achingly blue and there's scarcely a ripple on the briny....makes me want to unwinterize the rubber duck.

[codprawn]

Don't know where you got your 95% from Des

"Land Rover claims that a surprisingly high percentage of owners use their vehicles off-road, even if that means nothing more adventurous than towing a horse trailer across a firm, smooth field."

http://www.automobilemag.com/2006_sn...e_rover_sport/

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by hard1

Yes of course, this is becoming a regular mantra now with us not only not knowing what we're doing but always misinterpreting your comments as well.

Anyway la li la li la li la.. what a loverly day it is here in downtown Lymington. The sky is achingly blue and there's scarcely a ripple on the briny....makes me want to unwinterize the rubber duck.

So which was it???

Either you thought I meant

1. People who buy Jap vehicles don't know what they are doing

or

2. If you don't know what your looking for avoid a Land Rover

I can only assume from your response I meant the 1st one and yet now you say I am accusing you of not knowing what I was on about!!!

It has to be one or the other!!!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Des, I'd actually love to hear about these figures etc, as I do not know all there is to know about everything.........

Jimbo this comment wasn’t aimed at you but since you’ve asked the figure, were across the board of all customers and the question was along the lines of what do you do with yours, no weighting, little demographics or socioeconomic stuff.
Bear in mind that current production figures for Defender makes up a very small percentage of total build, from memory current production is about 4K to 5K per year where as Disco is 185K and Freelander was about 100K per year.. This defiantly will slue the results towards the higher build models but when looked at in customer terms this is were the business is. Des