4x4 Advice - Hilux Surfs, Isuzu Troopers, Nissan Patrols

[Jimbo]

Hi all!

There seems to be a huuge amount of 4x4 knowledge on this forum, so I'm hoping with the wealth of experience contained, I can make an informed decision when I've eventually saved enough to change my car!

I currently drive a Kia Sportage, and whilst I enjoy the 2.0 petrol engine, the car isn't big enough, doesn't have enough torque to tow big things, and is a gay colour! I would like a big 4x4, that I can fit 5 people, all their sailing gear, and all the boat kit, and tow a double (sometimes triple) dinghy stack trailer with, as well as of course ribs.

7 Seats is a huge advantage, as I got stopped 2 weekends ago for having more people than seats in the car.

I've narrowed down what I'm after to a 2.5l plus Diesel car, preferably turbo. Being as I am a poor student (I know, poor student looking at a 4x4!) I would like a reliable car that's low maintenance, and spares are readily available for. I do go off road every once in a while when I'm helping on army cadet camps (or fancy getting the kia stuck on Andy's paintball site!), so would like something with more ability than an X5!

However, as well as being a pretty good off road and towing car, I also need any 4x4 to be road car as well, IE I need to be able to bomb it back to Kent in relative comfort, so it has to have a reasonable interior. Ride is not a major factor, however something a bit softer on the motorway than a defender would be nice. I'd also like something that doesn't accelerate like a tank, not talking ferrari here, just not a sloth. I'd also rather not buy anything older than 1995.

I would ideally like a car that depreciates horrendously from new, as then s/h they are cheaper! Fuel economy is, being as I'm after a 4x4, not a major issue compared to the general car market, however I would like an economical 4x4 if that makes sense!

Cars Currently on my shortlist are the Hilux Surf (The new shape one), and the Isuzu Trooper (I like the idea of 7 seats in the trooper). The Nissan Patrol is pricey, but I like the idea, and Andy Stevens suggested a Fourtrak, although the interior is a bit naf. I looked at a range rover however though the interior was wasted on me (a bit too comfortable, i'd wreck it with salt water!) and didn't like the maintenance costs etc.

That seems like one hell of a list of wants, however if anybody has any suggestions, suggest on!

(Also, if anyone in Hants has a trooper they'd be prepared to let me have a little drive of, that'd be grand too!)

[Alan]

I had a Trooper - W Reg vintage - 3.0TD. Loved it. It was very comfortable for every day useage, bags of room inside (mine was 5 seat not 7) for both pax and kit, lots of power from 3L common rail diesel (160bhp IIRC) so nippy enough on its own and a fantastic tow vehicle. I used to tow Blue Ice (7.5m Scorp if you dont already know her) on her heavy duty SBS trailer. All up weight 2250kg. The 'zu lapped it up, smooth tow & very stable. Fuel Economy was around 30mpg when not towing depending on how heavy your right foot is!

Without wishing to reignite the 'Landrover holy wars' (So steady on Codders), I felt it was a better tow vehicle than the Disco Td5 I had previously. It was also a much better investment of my own dosh as LR wanted 25k+ for my 6mth old Disco company car when I left whereas the Trooper cost me 18ish I think back in 2001. Nowadays you must be able to pick em up for very little.

Downsides....well whilst they are reliable, parts and servicing are expensive through Isuzu dealers. But I guess using an idependent or doing it yourself would cut down those costs.

Hope this helps!
Alan

[Jimbo]

Alan - cheers for that!

Sounds like it might be what I'm after, I've erred away from Landrover mainly because there are cheaper 4x4's, plus reliability seems to be touch and go, some people swear by them, others say they don't wear as well as they should.

My Kia does have expensive dealer parts, so I work on the basis of doing it myself, worked so far!

30mpg is better than my Kia Sportage 2.0 Petrol, although that's improved since I stopped revving it to pieces!

[codprawn]

My girlfriends father has a Hilux surf - I test drove it for him in a dealers in London and then drove it back. It is a P or R reg so the newest shape. His is pretty rare - can't remember the model but it had a big air scoop on the bonnet for the bigger intercooler which most don't have.

It was in great condition but not cheap - about £9,000 I think he paid for it about a year or so ago.

It does go well for a diesel auto but you have to watch it in the wet - arse end is very light and on road it is just in RWD so it spins the wheel easily.

Of all the JAP toys it is the only one I would consider buying.

Still not a patch on my Land Rover though and compared to a Discovery TD5 which he could have had for the same money it just isn't in the same league.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by codprawn

My girlfriends father has a Hilux surf - I test drove it for him in a dealers in London and then drove it back. It is a P or R reg so the newest shape. His is pretty rare - can't remember the model but it had a big air scoop on the bonnet for the bigger intercooler which most don't have.

It was in great condition but not cheap - about £9,000 I think he paid for it about a year or so ago.

It does go well for a diesel auto but you have to watch it in the wet - arse end is very light and on road it is just in RWD so it spins the wheel easily.

Of all the JAP toys it is the only one I would consider buying.

Still not a patch on my Land Rover though and compared to a Discovery TD5 which he could have had for the same money it just isn't in the same league.

Yes, they are expensive, I'll agree with you there! Seen some bargains on eBay, but most are waaay out of my hoped for budget (£5kish), and one would be even harder to find for me, as I want a manual, and those are seriously rare!

I've driven Rogue Wave's son's Surf, and I liked it a lot better than the kia, but was warned about the back end. Also, surfs don't have 7 seats.

That said, they are massive, and apparently reliable.

[codprawn]

And on the reliability front I was looking at a Nissan Terrano the other day - 1998 - treated as a car - not an offorader - which needed a load of welding to be done for the MOT - mechanic had to make a new rear spring mount for it amongst other things - it was in a right old state and the springs and chassis etc looked very wimpy next to my 110.

My 110 is a 1987 ex police and also has RNLI and surf stickers all over it so I think it has had a pretty hard life - then I had it and offroaded it every chance I could get. I have now decided to give it some TLC and have just been sandblasting the chassis back to bare metal - not a single rust holes anywhere!!! Will be coating it with the same Epoxy paints they use on oilrigs and the Forth bridge so it should last a while longer!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Yes, they are expensive, I'll agree with you there! Seen some bargains on eBay, but most are waaay out of my hoped for budget (£5kish), and one would be even harder to find for me, as I want a manual, and those are seriously rare!

I've driven Rogue Wave's son's Surf, and I liked it a lot better than the kia, but was warned about the back end. Also, surfs don't have 7 seats.

That said, they are massive, and apparently reliable.

Yes my mate loves it - it is an auto and because of that he only gets about 22mpg out of it.

To be honest most of these JAP things are pretty low tech underneath - even my mates Warrior still has leaf springs - they don't ride as well or anything.

I had a really childish but fun race the other day. There was a Surf racing a Warrior with a TD5 110 keeping out of it behind them. The 2 jap vehicles were really going for it but the surf was pulling away - imagine their faces when my old 110 came howling past them!!! The TD5 driver gave me a huge grin and a thumbs up - don't think the other 2 were so amused though!!! - I LOVE my V8.

[Hightower]

I've been looking at the Mitsubishi Delica as a Tow MPV'ish vehical. Not badly priced and based on the shogun/Pajero I think. Looks cool and seats 7/8, has 4x4 and a 2.8 TD 4 cylinder engine. Check them out on Ebay Jim, not sure about extreme offroad ability though but check out :http://www.mdocuk.co.uk/forums/

[Jizm]

The only thing I will say about surfs is make sure you buy the 3.0TD (130bhp) and not the 2.4TD, they are worlds apart!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jizm

The only thing I will say about surfs is make sure you buy the 3.0TD (130bhp) and not the 2.4TD, they are worlds apart!

Yes the 3L goes like stink....

[Hightower]

Wasn't there a cylinder head problem with Surf's?

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Yes the 3L goes like stink....

Especially if you get a new chip for the engine from what I've been told! Can improve economy too!

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Hightower

I've been looking at the Mitsubishi Delica as a Tow MPV'ish vehical. Not badly priced and based on the shogun/Pajero I think. Looks cool and seats 7/8, has 4x4 and a 2.8 TD 4 cylinder engine. Check them out on Ebay Jim, not sure about extreme offroad ability though but check out :http://www.mdocuk.co.uk/forums/

Yeah, they look ok. Not sure they've got quite the 'image' I'm after, they look a little soccer mum!

Interesting concept with the MPV 4x4, being a Mitsu should be relatively reliable.

Where are Isuzus made? Are they the same as Vauxhall Montereys? Any Plus's on the Vauxhall?

[hard1]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Yes, they are expensive, I'll agree with you there! Seen some bargains on eBay, but most are waaay out of my hoped for budget (£5kish), and one would be even harder to find for me, as I want a manual, and those are seriously rare!

I've driven Rogue Wave's son's Surf, and I liked it a lot better than the kia, but was warned about the back end. Also, surfs don't have 7 seats.

That said, they are massive, and apparently reliable.

I drive a Lotus Bighorn (import Trooper with Lotus designed suspension package) having had Shogun, Pajero, Disco, Landie and Toyota in the past. Low mileage LWB's (30-50K kilometres) around 10-12 years old fetch between £4K-£5K around here. Best 4X4 for all round use (IMHO) - 7 seats, loads of room, as big as a Rangie, 3.1 TD diesel version 24-28mpg. Fully loaded with all extras, some with leather. Tows brilliantly cos it's a heavyweight at over 2 tons (has a pukka chassis). Not the fastest by a long way but 95 models have over 130 hp. Against: old tech motors with mech diesel pumps. No ECU (except on auto g/box) but it means you can do any work yourself. Do avoid the later 3.0 litre versions of Troopers as they have a long history of engine problems with the Caterpillar designed motor (still a cracking 4X4 though if all campaign work done).Avoid the gas 3.5 litre V6 - goes like sh*t but is thirsty as hell. Stick to the 3.1 and you won't go wrong. As previous poster says, the 2.4 Toyota Surf is a pick-up truck with a saloon body on and drives like it. Motor is underpowered and tends to overheat. Just my opinion and I hope it helps. Isuzu Bighorn/Trooper is the best motor I have owned for years.

[tue]

Originally Posted by Hightower

Wasn't there a cylinder head problem with Surf's?

Only on the 2.4 Diesels. The 3ltr is pretty sound, but has a tendancy for the radiator top tank to leak. Something to do with the metal used gets small pin pricks which link up and make a hole. Mine had a leak when I bought it but a new Top tank and its been fine since.

The 3ltr goes well, but fuel consuption isn't that good. I get about 23mpg around town and around 28mpg on a run. But reliability wise I have had mine for 9 months now and not had a single problem with anything. Goes well off road too .

[Rogue Wave]

Fistly Jimbo you always struck me as the convertible mini type (or sum other hairdressers car)

I have a Patrol and a 110 both old and I've owned a Disco and a trooper. and currently drive a Surf. So which car do I like the most .....Thats easy a Land Cruiser

Seriously though unless you are towing big big stuff the a Patrol or cruiser isn't needed.

Surf 3.0 are juicy but cool and the trooper is my favourite!

[gavin]

Toyota s advertising slogan in Australia was about your life depending on it,so drive Toyota.

In a country where most drives outside of city areas are pure offroad and tracks, you would be hard pushed to find a Landy,
Toyotas are everywhere, especially the Surf

What about the Taliban they loved them, and did you see the Jermery Clarkson sinking, and burning of the Hilux

What does this tell you

[hard1]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Where are Isuzus made? Are they the same as Vauxhall Montereys? Any Plus's on the Vauxhall?

RE-Badged Trooper = 'xactly same mechanically but maybe even better trim and tend to be a bit cheaper. You could pick up a bargain....

Isuzu's are made in Japan (!) in a factory (!) situated on the River Isuzu (!) which gives the brand it's name....

Oh by the way, you can also see same vehicle badged as a Honda Horizon (!)

uh, goodbye now....

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Fistly Jimbo you always struck me as the convertible mini type (or sum other hairdressers car)

I have a Patrol and a 110 both old and I've owned a Disco and a trooper. and currently drive a Surf. So which car do I like the most .....Thats easy a Land Cruiser

Seriously though unless you are towing big big stuff the a Patrol or cruiser isn't needed.

Surf 3.0 are juicy but cool and the trooper is my favourite!

You aren't nice sometimes! My first car was indeed a mini, although it wasn't a convertable, and it was an old skool one. I'm not sure I like the hairdresser reference, think I might be inclined to come back with a comment about wales and sheep, no, I'll leave that

Ok, Land Cruisers are waaay out of my league, and you don't reckon I need a patrol, which is good cos I can't afford one, but you like the trooper, which is cool, cos I think I want one!

Originally Posted by hard1

RE-Badged Trooper = 'xactly same mechanically but maybe even better trim and tend to be a bit cheaper. You could pick up a bargain....

Isuzu's are made in Japan (!) in a factory (!) situated on the River Isuzu (!) which gives the brand it's name....

Oh by the way, you can also see same vehicle badged as a Honda Horizon (!)

uh, goodbye now....

Ok, I'll also look at Vauxhall, although having continually slated his Vectra, I'll never be able to look my Dad in the eye again

Cheers for all your info!

[Rogue Wave]

I used to have a Cavalier SRI and an Astra GTE before I settled down into the boring wan--r I am nowadays and those babies flew and held the road well, i hammered them and they lasted the course well!

You only had a pop at yu Dadas vectra cos you were influenced by that Ponse Clarkson