Are you First Aid Trained

[tim griffin]

How many of you are First Aid Trained .

What would you do if an emergency happened at home/work or boating
Do you think it is an important skill we should have.

Plenty of organisations offer basic one day courses and yet its something that most people overlook when getting involved in a new sport or pastime/hobby where the potential of an individual needing first aid is raised due to the nature of the activity.

[Nauti Buoy]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

How many of you are First Aid Trained .

What would you do if an emergency happened at home/work or boating
Do you think it is an important skill we should have.

Plenty of organisations offer basic one day courses and yet its something that most people overlook when getting involved in a new sport or pastime/hobby where the potential of an individual needing first aid is raised due to the nature of the activity.

Re-did my First Aid Course yesterday with Robin, found it very useful, surprising how methods of CPR have changed since I last did it. Mainly did it for use out on the water if ever required, but have benefited from having knowledge of First Aid twice now at work. Some of it is common sense, but also something you think you should do to help someone injured could actually be doing them harm.

[Nick Hearne]

I did my Padi diver rescues course many years ago & used to teach CPR etc in my days of teaching SAA club divers! All a bit rusty now!

[Clive]

Hi
I have done a course in Equine first aid does that count.....
could be usefull in a HOB situation (horse over board)

[Mark Halliday]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

How many of you are First Aid Trained .

I took my RYA First Aid course last year courtesy of my sailing club as part of the rescue boat team.

Originally Posted by tim griffin

What would you do if an emergency happened at home/work or boating

Home/work. Make the casualty safe and comfortable and call 999.
Boating. As above but transmit a MayDay.

I have not had to use it and hope never to have to either.

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Do you think it is an important skill we should have.

I am not too sure. There are too many "Do Gooders" out there already.
My wife is a nurse and fully trained for emergency resus. She would not touch an injured person with a barge pole if they were outside her Hospital.

Originally Posted by Nauti Buoy

surprising how methods of CPR have changed since I last did it.

I know. It has changed since my course last year. What is the ratio now?

[Mark Halliday]

Originally Posted by Clive

Hi
I have done a course in Equine first aid does that count.....
could be usefull in a HOB situation (horse over board)

Could you cope with the 550 horses on the back of Nauti's boat?

[Nauti Buoy]

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

I know. It has changed since my course last year. What is the ratio now?

30 Chest compressions then 2 Mouth to Mouth.


to the speed of "Nelly the Elephant packed her trunk and said good by to the circus. "

[Mark Halliday]

Hmmmm.

Same as last year.
Viv has just done her hospital refresher and says its now 1 rescue breath, 30 compressions, 1 breath etc (I think?)

I will check later.

Tim. What is the RYA answer?

[tim griffin]

[quote=Mark Halliday;18392

Tim. What is the RYA answer? [/quote]


RYA and HSE FAW 30 to 2

RLSS UK Paediatric and Open Water and Specialist awards 5 initial rescue breaths then 30 to 2
RLSS UK Beach lifeguards who deal with drownings 5 initial rescue breaths then 30 to 2.

Should add that if Paediatric or drowning then after 5 initial rescue breaths continue CPR for 1 min then call/send go for an Ambulance (if working alone)

[whiteminiman]

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

I am not too sure. There are too many "Do Gooders" out there already.
My wife is a nurse and fully trained for emergency resus. She would not touch an injured person with a barge pole if they were outside her Hospital.

Why is that? [can of worms = opened]

As a registered nurse she has a **professional** (note NOT legal) obligation to assist in anyway that she can. I'd argue that point 1.2 in the NMC Code of Conduct (Nov' 2004 revision) covers that. (although I appreciate it is currently under review).

However, who is going to know she is a nurse as she steps over the body? Nobody. So the risks are minimal, but the consequences high.

Mark,

Ref - a later post of yours - be aware that Health Care Professionals are considered separately to "lay" first aiders.. the protocols they use are different (because they have more kit available to them). So don't be too concerned if your wife is telling you one set of protocols, and the people on here telling you another.

Cheers, WMM

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

How many of you are First Aid Trained

I am. I've done a variety of first aid courses over the years, and apart from the CPR ratios, the main change seems to be that for day-to-day situations first aiders are instructed to do as little as absolutely necessary.

The fundamental principles are to preserve life, prevent further injury, and minimise discomfort until medical assistance is on site. Keep the casualty breathing, stop them bleeding to death, summon assistance, keep them as comfortable as possible. Don't do anything else.

There is scope for more advanced first aid, and it's something that people should consider if they are regularly going to be in situations where medical assistance isn't easily at hand.

However I think that, whether or not they are prepared to carry out CPR, absolutely everyone should have some first aid knowledge as a basic life skill. Things like maintaining an airway, slowing down major bleeds, minimising burn injuries are not complicated and involve minimal intervention.

John

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

However I think that, whether or not they are prepared to carry out CPR, absolutely everyone should have some first aid knowledge as a basic life skill. Things like maintaining an airway, slowing down major bleeds, minimising burn injuries are not complicated and involve minimal intervention.

John

Totally agree.
I would like to see it taught in schools and for those life skills to follow them through their education and into adult life .

[Aidan]

Yes I believe that if you declare that you are a 1st aider, you become legally liable. SO claim nothing.
I did a few of them including advanced for Yachtmaster.
It would be interesting to see who would perform Emergency Tracheotomy if needed to prevent a choker assuming the Heimlich etc doesnt work which is quite hard to do on a fat person.

Meanwhile on a lighter note....
There were three Golfers who drove off the first.
One went 300 yards down the middle with the second driving into the bushes on the right and the third half way up the middle.
You go on ahead says the third short hitter to the long hitter and i will help him find his ball. SO in he went to the bushes after the 2nd hitter and they stayed in there for an age. Eventually the long hitter returned having played out and went in to the bushes to find one of them giving the other a "good seeing to" and the other turning purple....
My Lord he exclaims, what are you doing he asks, says the person back, I came in to help him find his ball and he started having a heart attack...
To which the first man asks " are you not supposed to be giving him the kiss of life" to which the embarrassed man answers, " well it started out that way"....

[Jimbo]

I've done the RYA Course (Inc Cat C) for my Instructors tickets, and First Aid At Work for my work with Army Cadets. I'm also about to do an AED course with my housemate, who is a Paramedic.

Originally Posted by Aidan

Yes I believe that if you declare that you are a 1st aider, you become legally liable. SO claim nothing.

Nope. Providing you are acting within the limits of your training you will not be held liable.

[Mark Halliday]

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

now 1 rescue breath, 30 compressions, 1 breath etc (I think?)

Sorry. Total Grey Moment.

Yes, it was 30:2.

[NautiAndNice]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

How many of you are First Aid Trained .

I am - adults, paediatrics and use of AED's, but then again I need it for work and need to be retrained every 6 months.

Regarding legal liability etc - the "Good Samaritan" principle supports those acting in an emergency, although it won't protect those who go beyond accepted practices (e.g. an over zealous ER viewer who goes about giving homemade tracheostomies by punching holes in peoples' tracheas!). Even if there is a calculated risk it is correct to apply a treatment that should benefit the majority of casualties. You should not, however, apply a doubtful practice just for the sake of doing something.

Once a person (lay or medically trained) has initiated care of a casualty, they have established a duty of care until further help arrives.

The Bolam principle/test also applies - it states that medical professionals are not liable for diagnosis/treatment as long as they are following a responsible body of medical opinion i.e. professionals are judged against the standard of their peers. The actions of First Aiders therefore should only be compared against the average First Aider with equivalent training and expertise.

[The Jackeens]

Recommend the training though need updating (been a long time since Bronze Medallion!!!!)

Hopefully a pre-arranged session from a highly expert paramedic will take place soon down these parts ('First Aid at Sea').

We've got to wait 'till the weather warms up as it plays havoc with his arthritis (despite the Damarts).

K & P

[Poly]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

How many of you are First Aid Trained.
What would you do if an emergency happened at home/work or boating
Do you think it is an important skill we should have.

yes, and I do think it is important, considering the delays that are likely in getting help at sea.

Or did you mean...

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Griffin marine offer basic one day courses and yet none of you seem to be signing up when getting involved in a new sport or pastime/hobby where the potential of an individual needing first aid is raised due to the nature of the activity.

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Polwart

yes, and I do think it is important, considering the delays that are likely in getting help at sea.

Or did you mean...

Griffin Marine offer basic one day courses and yet none of you seem to be signing up


LOL Sorry Polwart way off the mark in touting for busines just a question I am keen to know the answer to . I can always advertise a course in the trade section and to be honest I run a fair few so never felt the need to advertise.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Griffin Marine offer basic one day courses and yet none of you seem to be signing up


LOL Sorry Polwart way off the mark in touting for busines just a question I am keen to know the answer to . I can always advertise a course in the trade section and to be honest I run a fair few so never felt the need to advertise.

Tim, OK no offence intended.

As I see it the major downside of FA training is that it takes quite a bit of time (1 day to learn the basics - 4 days to be "considered by most organisations" as a "first aider"). That is quite a lot of time to commit to something that you hope never to need. Especially since most of us are short of time to get on the boat anyway. On top of this first aid certificates tend to have a 3 year shelf life - whilst most other training is usually unlimited. Add to that the "it will never happen to me mentality" and the reality that most people will rarely use the skills they learn on a 1 day first aid course anyway.

I am not trying to criticise this - but it would all contribute to making first aid training relatively less attractive than other ways to spend my money.

I completely support the idea of everyone learning first aid at school.

I also believe it should be a significant element of a PB2 course (from memory more time is spent tying knots than on first aid).

Now for the positives (?) if I was looking for a first aid course for ribbing then i would want to be being taught by someone who actually has some experience actually doing first aid regularly on genuine casualties. Many "sea schools" offer the RYA first aid course but I suspect most of their trainers have never actually maintained a casualties airway, dealt with fractures or life threatening bleeding. If you go to one of the voluntary aid organisations (e.g. red cross, st john, st andrews) you stand a better chance of this (although beware it is possible to become a trainer without ever dealing with real casualties, in real situations, in these orgs too. However, generally, I wouldn't recommend them for a marine environment unless it is a specialist course (red cross certainly run a small number of specialist outdoor courses) - as the additional challenges of being remote, in a boat etc are not something most of these organisations deal with regularly.

I suspect that griffinmarine may be a good bet for this in that it sounds like you have a strong background in rescue/lifesaving type work as well as marine stuff.

To convince me to get excited about spending my precious time on a fa course I would suggest if someone can design a course in which most of the time is spent afloat so it feels like I am boating not sitting in a classroom then that would win me over. I realise the RYA course may spend some of the time afloat (I think) but its not most. In fact I think it should almost be possible to do an entire course for 3-4 people in a 6-7m rib... ...add in some refresher MoB drills, recovering dummies rather than a danboy, some thinking about what to do e.g. mid solent with the casualty (e.g. run to shore - and quickly work out the navigation etc) - all under the pressure of having a simulated casualty to deal with.

OK thats enough waffling by me - except to mention my final pet hate with fa instructors. Mnemonics... (e.g. Fishshaped to discribe the causes of unconsciousness) - there are millions of them and all they do is help you quickly learn to pass the exam - in my experience they are not actually much use when faced with a casualty - where as understanding a little bit - gives a much better idea of the causes and actions.

Cheers,

Neil