Border Contols

[ashbypower]

Looks like we'll have more Bureaucracy when foreign cruising
MORE

[havener]

More pointless schemes to spend taxpayers money instead of sacking civil servants...

It won't work - as we all know :

Most people just won't bother
Those up to no good will simply file false plans
There'll be no-one around to enforce it anyway
And someone will put all the records on a CD then lose it.

Oh yes, and the project will come in late and at four times the cost estimate.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by ashbypower

Looks like we'll have more Bureaucracy when foreign cruising MORE

This always used to be the case though, filled in a form dropped it into the Customs and Excise box in the marina and then filled in the back page on return.

So you now have to fill an on line form in giving some details of your trip. If it gives C&E a start point to identify the good guys from those trafficking or running drugs then perhaps a small price to pay.

Pete

[havener]

Originally Posted by Pete7

If it gives C&E a start point to identify the good guys from those trafficking or running drugs then perhaps a small price to pay.

Pete

Sorry, I don't see how filling in a form will help. The only way to know would be to seach boats - and C&Es marine section is now so small as to be almost negligable, given the length of coastline we have.

After all, if the was a tickbox saying "purpose of trip" I'd hardly be likely to tick the "drug running" option. It's a bit like those security clearance forms that ask if you've ever been involved in terrorism...

Like a terrorist would say yes...

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by havener

More pointless schemes to spend taxpayers money instead of sacking civil servants...

You have a problem with civil servants, or is it more likely the present Government big difference.

It won't work - as we all know: Most people just won't bother
Those up to no good will simply file false plans, There'll be no-one around to enforce it anyway, And someone will put all the records on a CD then lose it. Oh yes, and the project will come in late and at four times the cost estimate.

Those up to no good will file genuine passage plans and try to hide. They are around, big Customs Cutter regularly seen in Haslar Marina, or you could search on Ribnet for Nautibouys experience.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by havener

- and C&Es marine section is now so small as to be almost negligable, given the length of coastline we have.

Exactly, so have a system that can help to identify possible suspects and target them rather than trying to watch everyone.

Pete

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by havener

More pointless schemes to spend taxpayers money
Oh yes, and the project will come in late and at four times the cost estimate.

Hear, hear

[Nos4r2]

Hmm. I wonder how many people will get stopped and searched for being in the wrong place? For example I can't look out of the window to see if the forecast is roughly right so a planned jaunt across the channel is quite likely to turn into a pie and a pint in the Folly.

With 4 hours a day being spent trailering I'm not formfilling at 5am before I leave here.I'd have to do it the day before.

[havener]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Exactly, so have a system that can help to identify possible suspects and target them rather than trying to watch everyone.

Pete

But that system isn't a piece of paper (or an online form).

The only effective deterrant is a C&E presence at sea - yes, there are a few cutters around and they do carry out some random searches, but as a percentage of UK boat movements I should imagine they're pretty low. I would imagine they use some sort of offender profiling - presumably a Saga yacht full of wrinklies is less likely to be searched than a fast rib with 2 POB out at night with no navlights!

I have a distinct feeling that if the money for this scheme (project team, publicity, etc) we put directly into returning C&E officers to marine areas we would see a lot more interceptions per £ of taxpayers' money.

Simon

[John Kennett]

I had a look at e-Borders information on the Border and Immigration Agency web site and it doesn't mention leisure users, only "the travel industry".

I've emailed them asking for clarification.

John

[havener]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Hmm. I wonder how many people will get stopped and searched for being in the wrong place? For example I can't look out of the window to see if the forecast is roughly right so a planned jaunt across the channel is quite likely to turn into a pie and a pint in the Folly.

With 4 hours a day being spent trailering I'm not formfilling at 5am before I leave here.I'd have to do it the day before.

Exactly. And what provision is being made for that data to be available, in real time, to cutters / teams at sea?

It's more big brother crap. Just as road pricing will mean us all having to have tags in cars linked to a big surveillance network, I can see this being the thin end of the wedge. Stage 1 - fill in an online form. Stage 2 - Govt claims scheme isn't effective and requires AIS on all craft. Stage 3 - Massive recruitment drive of more civil servants to enforce scheme. Stage 4 - Billing boaters per mile travelled to help "conserve the environment".

Then of course it can all be linked to an EU database...

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by havener

Then of course it can all be linked to an EU database...

If the UK had properly embraced it's position as part of the EU and signed up to the Schengen Convention then we wouldn't be presented with these new hoops to jump through.

I got a reply from from the "e-Borders Comms Team". The news isn't good:

"To comply with e-Borders requirements, pleasure craft on international voyages will be required to provide through a web application, a web form or electronic file upload of specified information on crew and passengers including Travel Document Information and Service Information in advance of departure on outbound and inbound voyages."

John

[havener]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

I got a reply from from the "e-Borders Comms Team". The news isn't good:

"To comply with e-Borders requirements, pleasure craft on international voyages will be required to provide through a web application, a web form or electronic file upload of specified information on crew and passengers including Travel Document Information and Service Information in advance of departure on outbound and inbound voyages."

John

But isn't this compromising the right to unhindered travel within the EU for member states?

And what's the definition of "international travel"? Landing at a foreign shore, or entering foreign territorial waters?

If the UK had properly embraced it's position as part of the EU and signed up to the Schengen Convention then we wouldn't be presented with these new hoops to jump through.

Or if we stuck two fingers up to the whole European super(nanny) state.

[Nos4r2]

Time we got rid of our "cabal of sleazy joyless puritans" and Mr Bean.

Anyone for mass disobedience? It makes a point very well.

[havener]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Time we got rid of our "cabal of sleazy joyless puritans" and Mr Bean.

Anyone for mass disobedience? It makes a point very well.

Having filled up with diesel this morning, I'd happily join a proper fuel protest (like the Italians just did) - that amongst many protests!

Maybe we could get the tipper drivers to lead it

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by havener

But isn't this compromising the right to unhindered travel within the EU for member states?

Apparently not. It's down to the UK opting out of the Schengen Agreement again. More details on the European Commission web site.

And what's the definition of "international travel"? Landing at a foreign shore, or entering foreign territorial waters?

An interesting question!

I tried to have another look at the e-Borders web site, but the Border & Immigration Agency seems to have taken it down. I feel another email coming on.

John

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Time we got rid of our "cabal of sleazy joyless puritans" and Mr Bean.

Anyone for mass disobedience? It makes a point very well.

Iam all for it , the french do it well . It just seems that the average brit just accepts all the sh1t they throw at us and just moans more but does nothing.