Cheap Arc welder, which one?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by chewy

No. But thats the point of buying one I can practice so I can weld.
Regardless of whether I can weld or not or if it would be cheaper to take it to the fab shop my original question still stands.

....buy, if you can find one, a single phase old oil filled "stick" set...they should be dirt cheap. Get in touch with your local college and see if they do evening courses..lots around here do..not surprisingly..and learn to weld “SMAW”. Once you've mastered this…and with a little guidance it’s possible, then you can move to MIG/MAG if you wish. People A) underestimate the versatility of stick and B) often think that MIG is “better”. Sure, it’s a lot easier to get a “pretty” weld with MIG….but learn to be a "welder"..before you become just another “torch holder”….you won’t lose any money on your old stick set..if you move to MIG…and they are useful bits of kit to have around….

[chewy]

So Arc or Mig? I'm going to be using outside so is Arc better?

[tinker]

Originally Posted by Jono

It's not "my opinion", Sunshine, I know what the difference is between an “earth leakage” and “overload” protection device. I'm not going to debate it with you. If you're interested, do some research..there's plenty of information out there..most of it free.

Sunshine,,,,,thanks 'arc flash'. Just one last point for you to consider.

Before RCD's and MCB's were introduced what protected people and livestock against indirect electric shock? Fuses? Bet you didn't know that?

Will have to use this thread to highlight the incompetence that surrounds my industry.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by chewy

So Arc or Mig? I'm going to be using outside so is Arc better?

One of the inverter arc sets )

[Jono]

Originally Posted by tinker

...Will have to use this thread to highlight the incompetence that surrounds my industry.

Jeez...don't tell us you're a SPARKS? Guys on here talking about changing a 13-amp fuse in a plug on a 240V household supply… and you come out with this..

Originally Posted by tinker

Any voltage over 50v is considered a shock risk. This is what protective devices are rated to, to prevent a greater voltage than 50v+. BS7671:2008.

If you increase the rating of the protective device it takes longer to cut out during an indirect fault condition, meaning the voltage will be greater than 50v

:

I think you’ll find that 240 volt (A/C) fuses are rated to just that…240..and tested at 260….

Either get your money back from whatever course you went on…or consider a change in career.

[tinker]

Sorry about the hijacking of this thread, I do not normally rise to stupid comments and silly insults but as this is safety related and Jono appears to be encouraging a disregard for fuses and their ratings I feel obliged to step up to the table.

When you put you finger on a live part of an electrical system (during fault conditions) the current flows through your body down to earth and then straight back to the suppliers transformer (through the earth fault path)

The fault current then passes through the live conductor all the way back to the point of the fault, this circuit is called the fault path and its what generates your overload, which trips the MCB or blows the fuse.

Please take your time to read the link below, which clearly outlines the purpose of a fuse link

Fuses by the IET

I will not comment anymore on this subject.

PS Arc is not very good for thin materials, it tends to buckle it under the heat generated

[doggypaddle]

Originally Posted by Jono

Jeez...don't tell us you're a SPARKS? Guys on here talking about changing a 13-amp fuse in a plug on a 240V household supply… and you come out with this..



I think you’ll find that 240 volt (A/C) fuses are rated to just that…240..and tested at 260….

Either get your money back from whatever course you went on…or consider a change in career.

20 mils kills! so the old saying goes, and it tales 1 second to blow a domestic plugtop fuse @ 100 amps (scary eh)
how the hell is a fuse going to stop you from getting a shock???
all a fuse does is blow in an overcurrent situation. if the overcurrent situation is caused by a leakage to an earthed metal case then it could potentially prevent a shock if the earth wasn't perfect and the voltage rose significantly above ground. A career change.......

[doggypaddle]

Originally Posted by tinker

Sorry about the hijacking of this thread, I do not normally rise to stupid comments and silly insults but as this is safety related and Jono appears to be encouraging a disregard for fuses and their ratings I feel obliged to step up to the table.

When you put you finger on a live part of an electrical system (during fault conditions) the current flows through your body down to earth and then straight back to the suppliers transformer (through the earth fault path)

The fault current then passes through the live conductor all the way back to the point of the fault, this circuit is called the fault path and its what generates your overload, which trips the MCB or blows the fuse.

Please take your time to read the link below, which clearly outlines the purpose of a fuse link

Fuses by the IET

I will not comment anymore on this subject.

Just as well because all you have written is utter crap. Re read what you have written, you are suggesting the fault current through contact with a live part through the body is what blows the fuse!
If something is live due to a fault and it hasnt blown the fuse due to the overload, (due to poor earthing) and you then touch that live component carrying the current to ground then youre feckked fuse or not.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by tinker

Sorry about the hijacking of this thread, I do not normally rise to stupid comments and silly insults but as this is safety related and Jono appears to be encouraging a disregard for fuses and their ratings I feel obliged to step up to the table. ……….

PS Arc is not very good for thin materials, it tends to buckle it under the heat generated

You really don't have a clue do you? I wasn't "encouraging" anything..just pointing out that you were giving some seriously incorrect information.
You grab hold of something with an Earth/live problem and a fuse/MCB isn’t going to be an awful lot of good to you. Now an RCD may just save your life…you’d do well to brush up on the difference…then “step up to the table”

Chassis on Landrovers are perfectly suitable for welding with SMAW….

[doggypaddle]

Originally Posted by Jono

You really don't have a clue do you? I wasn't "encouraging" anything..just pointing out that you were giving some seriously incorrect information.
You grab hold of something with an Earth/live problem and a fuse/MCB isn’t going to be an awful lot of good to you. Now an RCD may just save your life…you’d do well to brush up on the difference…then “step up to the table”

Chassis on Landrovers are perfectly suitable for welding with SMAW….

Just give up....he clearly didnt digest the contents of the link he posted

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by tinker

Before RCD's and MCB's were introduced what protected people and livestock against indirect electric shock? Fuses? Bet you didn't know that?

I certainly didn't, as I was taught that the purpose of a fuse was as a "weak link" in the circuit.

Originally Posted by tinker

Will have to use this thread to highlight the incompetence that surrounds my industry.

I'd have said it was more like " the incompetence within the industry".

I've had the pleasure of employing these so called profssionals in both the building industry, and the boat building industry, and the one thing that they all seem to have in common is that they claim to know how to do it, but usually struggle to get on with it.

They're always the one that holds the bloody job up as well! Many a job has run late coz of the sparks.....

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

I certainly didn't, as I was taught that the purpose of a fuse was as a "weak link" in the circuit.



I'd have said it was more like " the incompetence within the industry".

I've had the pleasure of employing these so called profssionals in both the building industry, and the boat building industry, and the one thing that they all seem to have in common is that they claim to know how to do it, but usually struggle to get on with it.

They're always the one that holds the bloody job up as well! Many a job has run late coz of the sparks.....

A constellation of Tiffies and a confusion of sparks.

[Simon B]

Check this out;

ReadyWelder

[Nasher]

Who mentioned fuses?

Oh bugger, it was me.

Sorry Chewy.

Nasher.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Who mentioned fuses?

Oh bugger, it was me.

Sorry Chewy.

Nasher.

No worries mate me and another forum member sometimes end up changing the subject....

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by chewy

No worries mate me and another forum member sometimes end up changing the subject....

Who's that then???

[chewy]

He'll no doubt be along shortly...

[JSP]

BOLLOX!

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by tinker

PS Arc is not very good for thin materials, it tends to buckle it under the heat generated

Yep but he was talking about a Land Rover chassis and the welding lessons should teach him a little about it, but go on please tell us what he should use

[doggypaddle]

Originally Posted by bedajim

Yep but he was talking about a Land Rover chassis and the welding lessons should teach him a little about it, but go on please tell us what he should use

I have extensively welded landrover chassis and i would use a mig every time, sure with practice you can "stick" it together, but with a mig you can get good results very soon after picking up the torch, also its easier to fill holes in when you try welding vertically up to get good penetration and go that bit too far
Also its a hell of a lot quicker with a mig, landrover chassis are thin, especially when rusted a bit! mig is more contrallable.
Buy a mig, if you dont you will only end up with a mig and a stick,
I used a stick for years and when i finally bought a MIG i was kicking myself for not buying one 10 years earlier