Cheap Arc welder, which one?

[Simon B]

Precisely! In anything other than a new Land Rover the chassis will thin!!!

Codders will be along soon to refute all negative Land Rover alegations.

[jwalker]

Also its a hell of a lot quicker with a mig, landrover chassis are thin,rusted a bit!

Now, trying to MIG weld rusty metal is a whole new skill.

If you buy a cheap MIG it needs one essential for non frustrating use - a good steady wire feed mechanism which doesn't slow when you bend the cable/feed. If you're welding in the limited space under a car, you will end up with the gun at awkward angles which will strain the wire feed. Since one of the welder controls is the wire feed speed, if it varies while you're welding it's a pig.

If it's windy the gas WILL blow away but you can use gasless wire in your MIG welder along with the gas so windy conditions can be coped with.

I agree with Doggypaddle that MIG is easier than stick on thin sheet metal especially if welding an edge to a flat surface.

[chewy]

Any links to the "right" welder?

[doggypaddle]

everything jwalker says its right, not entirely sure about the gasless wire though, i seem to recall you had to use reverse polarity for some wire, meaning if the mig doesnt have that facility you cant really use that wire.
I have a sealey welder, its 160amp and OK for most stuff. The wire feed is a bit flimsy but suprisingly its lasted me 5 years of use.
Its a bugger in the wind like all gas migs and if welding in awkward places you do need to try and keep the cable straightish to avoid wire tangles.

i think the clarke proffesional range are ok as are Cebora, Migatronic are very good but probably expensive.
At the end of the day you get what you pay for. a cheap clarke wont have smoothing chokes or as big capacitors in the power supply and will give a rougher weld than a more expensive model with smooth dc output.

This clarke is quite a nice one to use(friend has one)
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/pr...al-mig-welders

And i have the earlier model of this one.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/pr...iy-mig-welders

Mine was £150 "round the back" as codders says

[codprawn]

My Clarke is very smooth in use - I have used a Butters and a few high end industrial jobs.

With the right gas and by changing the cheap and nasty torch to a good quality one it makes a hell of a difference - feels like a much more expensive set up in use.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Simon B

Precisely! In anything other than a new Land Rover the chassis will thin!!!

Codders will be along soon to refute all negative Land Rover alegations.

They may be thin but still a lot better than most of the others. My 1986 ex Police 110 chassis is still fine. It's the outriggers that go - mud sits on top of them. It takes a very long time though and a bit of proper cleaning works wonders!!!

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by doggypaddle

...not entirely sure about the gasless wire though, ..

it works well, promise...

My first machine was a SIP, fairly high end but the wire feed was shit and there was a tendency for the wire to tack close to the nozzle so the feed rollers bunched it up trying to feed it. Used it for lotsa stuff but eventually became frustrated with its limitations and lashed out on a big unit. Night and day but this one will burn skin in a couple of minutes if you're not covered up so even if it's roasting and the sun is shining you gotta be togged up.

[Jono]

Yeah..don't listen to me...what would I know about welding anyway? Last welding sets I bought were the thick end of £5K each... what would I know about welding......

Learn to weld...or learn to be a torch holder...your choice....but the amount of people who use a cheap MIG set to work on structural parts of vehicles...eg. the chassis..and just because the weld looks pretty..they think it's good.....but hey, what would I know...you listen to all the amateurs out there.
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...There, that should keep the debate going whilst I piss off to the Beer festival....Have a good weekend folks...

[doggypaddle]

Originally Posted by Jono

Yeah..don't listen to me...what would I know about welding anyway? Last welding sets I bought were the thick end of £5K each... what would I know about welding......

Learn to weld...or learn to be a torch holder...your choice....but the amount of people who use a cheap MIG set to work on structural parts of vehicles...eg. the chassis..and just because the weld looks pretty..they think it's good.....but hey, what would I know...you listen to all the amateurs out there.
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...There, that should keep the debate going whilst I piss off to the Beer festival....Have a good weekend folks...

Wind up merchant
I still say car bodywork including landrover chassis is too thin for all but the best welders to weld with a stick and an AC welder.
An inverter welder is a different story, i find my inverter walder nearly as good as a mig for thin stuff.
its true what you say about welding to "MOT standard"A tube of sikaflex will do that

[Simon B]

Originally Posted by doggypaddle

Wind up merchant
I still say car bodywork including landrover chassis is too thin for all but the best welders to weld with a stick and an AC welder.
An inverter welder is a different story, i find my inverter walder nearly as good as a mig for thin stuff.
its true what you say about welding to "MOT standard"A tube of sikaflex will do that

So who's up for some oxy-acetylene chassis welding, I thought that this was the only way to weld - in the same vein as only amatuers need arc switching face shields!!! Still heard all those arguments years ago by avid or was it rabid rebate plane users when routers strted to become cheaper...it endless

By the wat doggy paddle my exhaust manifold is minus all the junk and a nice plug was machined up for me to fill the hole, thanks for the tip. Am extending the wires on the loom now. Looking for a local exhaust fabricator now.

[codprawn]

There is a brillaint welder near me - all he uses is oxy - it's a joy to watch him work - the way he bends and shapes the steel as he works using the heat of the torch. He can weld rust to rust almost - try that with any electric process!!!

[chewy]

Originally Posted by codprawn

There is a brillaint welder near me - all he uses is oxy - it's a joy to watch him work - the way he bends and shapes the steel as he works using the heat of the torch. He can weld rust to rust almost - try that with any electric process!!!

Had some Black Smiths on the Steel Works I used to be on, was a joy to watch them work. Some of the heavy plant in there scared the sh!t out of me though!

[Simon B]

Originally Posted by codprawn

There is a brillaint welder near me - all he uses is oxy - it's a joy to watch him work - the way he bends and shapes the steel as he works using the heat of the torch. He can weld rust to rust almost - try that with any electric process!!!

Oxy Acteylene used to/still is used to straighten some pretty thick section stuff with heat only.

Thinnest stuff I worked on was 1.0mm mild steel, most theraputic.

[Jono]

Gratuitous shots of Landrover chassis, repaired and stretched…just to persuade you that I do know what I am talking about from experience…

[doggypaddle]

so did you stick weld that or mig it? I must admit i did all the welding on my series one with a stick, it turned out really neat, The MOT man said it was neat welding, when i said i did it with a 2.5 mm rod he said F*** off that migged
I wouldnt use a stick again though, its neat enough but takes soooooo long. I dread to think how long it would have taken to do the 90ft barge with a stick, took long enough with the 500A mig and 1.2mm wire I think it sent my mate Geraint a bit mental

[Jono]

Originally Posted by doggypaddle

so did you stick weld that or mig it? I must admit i did all the welding on my series one with a stick, it turned out really neat, The MOT man said it was neat welding, when i said i did it with a 2.5 mm rod he said F*** off that migged
I wouldnt use a stick again though, its neat enough but takes soooooo long. I dread to think how long it would have taken to do the 90ft barge with a stick, took long enough with the 500A mig and 1.2mm wire I think it sent my mate Geraint a bit mental

MIG...of course...but then we use very sophisticated ..well, as sophisticated as welding gets...sets..and I know the difference between "good looking" welds and "good" welds....
What on earth does he need a 500 AMP set with 1.2 (Solid?) wire for...when you're piddling about with the tin-plate they make barges from... I'm just going to imagine the porosity...why not FCAW them...?

[doggypaddle]

Originally Posted by Jono

MIG...of course...but then we use very sophisticated ..well, as sophisticated as welding gets...sets..and I know the difference between "good looking" welds and "good" welds....
What on earth does he need a 500 AMP set with 1.2 (Solid?) wire for...when you're piddling about with the tin-plate they make barges from... I'm just going to imagine the porosity...why not FCAW them...?

The big welder was used for other stuff too, excavator buckets, tractor loader frames etc. worked out pretty good for the barge, some of the plate was fairly thick especially around the keel which was 1.5" thick and the bottom was 13mm thick.
also he already had the mig, and the fumes aren't as orrible as FCAW.
The surveyor said it was the best put together dutch barge he had seen, but then again thats not much of a compliment bearing in mind most of the welding I have seen on them seens to be cosmetically finished with a smear of filler or sikaflex

[chewy]

Originally Posted by doggypaddle

The surveyor said it was the best put together dutch barge he had seen, but then again thats not much of a compliment bearing in mind most of the welding I have seen on them seens to be cosmetically finished with a smear of filler or sikaflex

A lad on Corus used to do lovely welds with putty and a lollipop stick!

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by doggypaddle

I used a stick for years and when i finally bought a MIG i was kicking myself for not buying one 10 years earlier

Well I'm a died in the wool stick man .. and theres not much I can't do with it except thinner stuff which is where the MIG scores, as everyone that comes into my shop keeps telling me .. So Ive been interested to read this thread .. I can only get single phase, and the lights in the offices start flickering when I go over 3 mil .. I believe the MIG doesnt draw as much power ? cos sometimes I have to weld 10mm stuff to buckets etc, what size MIG would handle that ? and can you use the same size wire for all apps, or do you have to change it a lot ? Its adding another dang cylinder to my BOC account that keeps putting me off ...

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Well I'm a died in the wool stick man .. and theres not much I can't do with it except thinner stuff which is where the MIG scores, as everyone that comes into my shop keeps telling me .. So Ive been interested to read this thread .. I can only get single phase, and the lights in the offices start flickering when I go over 3 mil .. I believe the MIG doesnt draw as much power ? cos sometimes I have to weld 10mm stuff to buckets etc, what size MIG would handle that ? and can you use the same size wire for all apps, or do you have to change it a lot ? Its adding another dang cylinder to my BOC account that keeps putting me off ...

"stick" with it.......