Cyclists nuisance or not.

[HUMBER P4VWL]

If they want to undertake and overtake on a single carriageway, it's their responsibility to see you turn left or right respectively. If turning right, it is an overtaking cars responsibility, so the same goes for a bike, pedal or motor.

[mister p]

And if cyclists choose to "try their chances on the road" then they should obey traffic lights, not use pavements, have proper lights, get insured and pass a test.

[GordyP]

Perhaps if cyclists had to show a registration a lot of the issues of jumping red lights etc would diminish.

After watching the programme last night we were talking about the guy who had the spat with the taxi driver, he also had a couple of other clips of him having aggro with other vehicle drivers. Firstly he was the common denominator, secondly he will at some point come up against someone who will happilly either run him over or alternatively drag him off his bike and kick the shit out of him (whether he's right or wrong).

Banging on the side of peoples vehicles and shouting at them will eventually end in violence, there's a fair few nasty folk out there who simply won't give a second thought of serious assault.

Reality is that there's twats on bikes and twats in cars.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by Poly

There is however a debate even within the cycling community about whether riding two up (or potentially more) is actually safer than 'singling out'. Unfortunately when singled out on narrow roads overtaking drivers tend to squeeze through gaps that don't really exist. That is obviously dangerous. By riding two abreast cyclists become a similar 'size' to a car on the road and thus "force" overtaking using the full road rather the squeezing through. There is a benefit for responsible car drivers too, six riders riding two abreast will take up about the same length of road as a large van, if they single out your overtake (which still need clear road on the other side) is for double the length. Of course the same argument would apply to a bigger group who decide to bunch up to four abreast - they increase the width (but groups riding 4 abreast will usually still be no wider than a car) but shorten the distance of your overtake by 3/4s. Obviously there is an argument to split the group up, but of course there are other arguments that a large group is more visible, its certainly more efficient in terms of cycling, and its probably easiest for drivers to overtake one big group once, than have 4 of 5 overtakes in the space of a few miles.

Come a bright sunny weekday or any type of weekend our local roads are awash with pink lycra riding two or three abreast ... I've got no issue with that. I'm convinced a car's width of moving chicane has far more safety for everyone.

What's always good cabaret - when cutting the grass as they pass - is the guy at the back shouting to his mate up front about the finer points of the previous nights bedroom gymnastics Are ALL cyclists really that deaf or are they simply exhibitionists?

[HUMBER P4VWL]

I'd expect a few trolls to find the two cyclists on line who are on a mission to prove their self righteousness. Plus a few short tempered people who will not take kindly to their preaching and car banging.

End result in both cases will not be pretty.

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by GordyP

Reality is that there's twats on bikes and twats in cars.

Bang on .

I cycle commuted to work for 3 years ish ....A huge number of car drivers just dont have any clue about anyhting on two wheels and how vulnerable it is.

I was hit twice, both times by people that had clearly never been out of a car.

I'd suggest for anyone who wants to learn what its like just go stand next to a busy road - cars at 50mph are very very scary with nothing between you and them except 2ft of air.

My cycling style is to make drivers lives easy and take decisions away from them, I drive with respect to bikes ( motor & cycle) and to make thier lives easy- I like nothing better than a raised hand as a 'thanks' from a biker ( or HGV driver - buses I just cant stand near me they just dont give a stuff about anything else on the road')

I do however cycle further out than is 'needed' sometimes - again to make sure the minority of car drivers( who cant think) dont have to 'choose' to overtake. Its not safe for me if they do - for whatever reason - so I make it clear its not even a consideration.

All about mutual respect ....but thats true of most of society nowadays....

[williamhorace336]

[Quote] I ride to prevent people trying to overtake me when it is not safe to do so, on a couple of occasions, idiots have ignored my positioning tried to overtake then had to do an emergency stop to prevent themselves having a head on collision with a vehicle they couldn't see.[Quote]

Ditto, I ride defensively and a fair way out from the kerb, this gives me protection when I know an incident is about to occur. Some drivers call it commanding the road, I call it personal safety. I ride Fixie alot in Portsmouth and can never complete a commute without someone being parked on double yellows whist in a cycle lane, they soon learn the error of their ways.

With regards to the program, I came across it by mistake and was glad I watched it. I love Fixie riding and thought this would disprove the ignorance and views vehicle drivers have with cyclists. Unfortunately the last clip didn’t do that, the couriers racing, was like suicide and does confirm the views most drivers have of cyclist.

On the other hand and throughout the program the majority or cyclist involved in RTI's were not at fault and the issue was care free drivers. Remember the charity rider who got hit for no reason but pure ignorance and red mist!

Alot to be learnt by both sets of road users!

[Ian M]

I'll sometimes ride to work (pedal) during the summer, and having been a biker (motor) for many years I like to think that I give both pedal and power two wheels adequate consideration. The big issue for me when on two wheels in the back water that I live in is white vans - they don't seem to give a s__t.

[boristhebold]

Cyclists are in more danger than ever due to increase in traffic, I personally feel the introduction of cycle lanes has in soem areas added to the danger as drivers think as long as they are driving in the car lane its ok, many cycle lanes have been painted onto existing roads which haven't been widened to accomodate so a false sense of security has been achieved adding to the dangers.

Yes I saw the TV episode.

As I regularly go up to london I would say I hate most cyclists in london as I have often been nearly run over by cyclists running red lights or overtaking cars that have stopped in heavy traffic.

[9D280]

Originally Posted by dpround

I can tell you the answer to that one. They are generally worse than useless. How would you like to give way at every side road?

Errr just like you have to do in a car at every junction on the real road?

Originally Posted by dpround

Be instructed to get out of your car and push at each major junction?

Like I said, this network diverts you neatly under most of them..... Infinitely more likely to have to stop in a car on the roundabout above! Those are because the bikes and the pedestrians go at the same time - it's to protect the pedestrians, in much the same way as youre not supposed to cycle on the pavement.....

Originally Posted by dpround

Take three cycles of the lights to turn right?

I know quite a few like then when I'm driving a car.....

Originally Posted by dpround

Have a protected lane only when you do NOT need it? Generally be a third class citizen?Alternatively, you can take you chances with the traffic, but get the same rights as everyone else. I think traffic planners who are going to design cycle facilities should be forced to use them!

David

OK, I will admit I'm playing Devil's advocate here slightly - I do agree I can think of lots of places the protected lane is pointless. I can also think of lots of the sort of Jns you talk about. And I can also think of lots of cylcle / bus lanes where they mix bkes, busses & taxias - put the relatively slow bikes in to block the mass transit vehicles! - Genius! I can also think of protected lanes that dissappear right where you might think they would be best for the bikes - at a busy Junction!

The systems I'm talking about are in Basildon & East Kilbride. You can literally cross Basildon and only need to stop at about 2 sets of "bike lights", which are on a sensor much the same as the rest of that junction's traffic - Cycle up, and the wait is rarely longer than about 30 seconds - less if the road sensor detects no cars & it just changes before you have your foot o nthe ground. East Kilbride takes a slightty different approach - you ride the roads with the rest of the traffic (apart from a few partuicularly busy bits with cycle lanes off the main road & separated by a verge) and there are bike sized slip lanes about 100 yds before the big roundabouts. You then have a "bikeabout" in the middle of the roundabout & slip back on at your chosen exit.

I can also think of plenty of places (e.g York) where the streets are so narrow that Bike lanes are going to be impsossible to put down alongside traffic.

The National Cycle Network also has a lot of good mileage on old railways running parallel to main roads.


But yes, it would appear we are all agreed that there are tw@ts on both sides of the potential near miss / death fine line.

[kerny]

For the pro cyclists... most didn't seem to adhere to this in the TV program..

https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82

[thomas]

I think 99% of the drivers in that video were completely out of order, they nearly all had the opportunity to shove his camera up his backside and none of them did, just shows how inconsiderate motorists can be to the next motorist that comes along and has put up with that sort of rubbish.

Seriously though, I cycle a lot but foremost I'm a driver so know how to behave. We get a lot of of cycle events round here, they are a PITA, we get them straddling the whole width of the road, riding three or four abreast in a line of 40 or so meters with no gaps to pull into and when you make a gap you get abuse and they stop and piss in groups by the side of the road where they feel like which is not very nice for the walkers as is against the law.

.... and it's only ever the spandex wearing road cyclists, I have never seen anyone on a mountain bike being a pain.

[vjmehra]

Living in Central London, I can't imagine anything worse than cycling, it looks like a deathtrap! That said, I don't bother driving here either...

What I will say though, is that cars do stop at red lights and tend to stop at zebra crossings, cyclists (I can only speak for those that cycle from East London along Bishopsgate as I did that walk every day) do not (in the vast majority of cases). The worst part is, that they will often shoot past a bus, at probably 15mph+, which when the traffic is stopped and you're on a zebra crossing is quite dangerous!

Now I appreciate a decent number of cyclists may be very safe and good riders, also perhaps the demographic (youngish 20-30 year old men maybe?) has a higher proportion of dangerous riders. I don't know, however having walked that route for nearly 5 years I would happily put my hand on my heart and say 80%+ of cyclists ignored red lights and people crossing the road (even when the traffic had already stopped at a zebra crossing for them).

What amused me once (this is the only time I've ever seen it, again right by Liverpool St Station), they put a police guy on a bike himself who pulled cyclists over if they ran a red light. I have no idea what the police can actually do, given they have no licence as such, but I'd love to see more of this happening, even if its just a quiet word in the ear, if it stops people running lights, its a good thing!

[maxg]

Get rid of the cyclists.......

Cyclist approximately 9% efficient.

Average car 34%

Co2 polluters............

[EnglishLes]

Originally Posted by maxg

Get rid of the cyclists.......

Cyclist approximately 9% efficient.

Average car 34%

Co2 polluters............

Not sure that the car is more efficient than a cyclist see: Science of Cycling: Human Power | Exploratorium

[vjmehra]

Personally I think its clear for all to see that the only logical thing to do is for the PLA to remove the speed limits and let everyone who works in London commute via the Thames by RIB ;-)

[bad_moose]

There are stupid cyclists and stupid drivers. The key difference is that if I cycle into a car, I'm not going to kill anyone but myself, whereas if the car drives into me then I am stuffed. I am all for defensive cycling. When you're on a bike you have no idea if the guy trying to overtake you is intending to be safe or not. If I'm in any way worried that someone is going to endanger me I'll stick myself in the most awkward place possible and make them wait. That might seem selfish but when one of the only likely alternatives is to be propelled off my bike at 20mph by some impatient dickhead I think it's my only option.

All that said though, I can see why drivers get wound up. There are cyclists out there who put themselves in incredibly stupid places (ie. the guy who got wedged between a 4x4 and a bus on YouTube).

[vjmehra]

Obviously in a car vs bike scenario, the cyclist tends to come of worse, but what about pedestrians?

In London, I am far more likely (in my experience, which is anecdotal obviously) to get run over by a cyclist. I can't recall the last time I saw a car driver (in central london, where admitedly the traffic flow basically stops it being possible anyway) run a red light...

[PeterM]

As a pedestrian I'd rather be hit by a bike than a car!...

[vjmehra]

Ha, of course! But in Central London, probability wise getting hit by a bike feels more likely. Maybe it's not, but it definitely feels like it is!