Defender Station Wagon TD5

[codprawn]

Pete why the hell did you buy one if you feel like this???

As to being rusty is is IMPOSSIBLE to know what sort of abuse it was subject to.

Didn't you bother reading what I said about the cockle pickers??? You should have seen the state on their Jap stuff!!!

I once hired a 110 td5 which was 3 years old - the state on it was unbelieveable - far more rust than my 1987 one - really was bad - even the seat runners were rusted into place. WHY??? Because it had been used by the loacal council on beach patrol and someone who had never even heard of DIFFLOCK got it stuck - it was covered by the tide several times before it was recovered!!!

Just remember most fleet vehicles are replaced after 3 years - it is not unusual to see Police - Firebrigade - Coastguard and other utilities using them way past that - they don't do that with their other vehicles!!!!

[eupa]

Anyway, seeing as this new heap of sh.t is going to keep breaking down, does anyone know if my boat and trailer would be recovered either here or in Europe under the Land Rover Europe asssistance when it breaks down?

... another one. Read the very small print.... In theory yes.. but in practice you would probbaly have to take legal action..... But according to all these fans.. "they never break down" - Ok the engines go , the boxes go, but naturally they never breakdown....

Jonathan

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

Anyway, seeing as this new heap of sh.t is going to keep breaking down, does anyone know if my boat and trailer would be recovered either here or in Europe under the Land Rover Europe asssistance when it breaks down?

... another one. Read the very small print.... In theory yes.. but in practice you would probbaly have to take legal action..... But according to all these fans.. "they never break down" - Ok the engines go , the boxes go, but naturally they never breakdown....

Jonathan

Well mine haven't - maybe yours kept going because you didn't have a clue about how to look after them????

[codprawn]

Pete IF you really want to look after it just read my earlier posts!!!! i do say what needs to be done!!!

The paint blisters you are on about are NOT rust - electrolytic corrosion caused by steel and alloy meeting - salt water does NOT help!!! Loads of Waxoyl in the doors etc will help.

Bad rust traps are - Bulkhead - to get into it take light switches out by door hinges and squirt loads of waxoyl in - either warm the can in hot water first or add white spirits to thin it.

Chassis is ok but front outriggers can trap mud - make sure you wash it off the TOP of the outriggers.

What you MUST remember is that people do NOT treat landrover's like normal cars - they dunk them in the sea - they drive them through mud - they use them on farms and building sites - and then don't bother to wash the shit off afterwards!!!

MORE important than rustproofing is to wash them down after use in fresh water - a garden sprinkler underneath works a treat - just leave it run for 30 mins and have a cuppa - easy!!!

The RAF actually have sprinklers spraying across the runway to wash salt off maritime patrol aircraft as they come in to land ...........

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by eupa

Would you like -with your vast knowledge base to inform what "ep" stands for?
you have 10 minutes and this is timed to 1950 GMt+1. I do know.

Since there is no rely, I'll have to help out the Cod. Extreme Pressure.

[eupa]

Since there is no rely, I'll have to help out the Cod. Extreme Pressure.

Thanks JW-pretty simple question.. I will draw my own conclusions....

Jonathan

[gavin]

Codprawn, I dont hate Landrovers I like the cool look of the Defender, and believe they are excellent offroad,

However I also believe that they are ultra unreliable, they rust extensively, without salt water dunkings, are badly engineered, are extremely basic, present with everything as the reviews I posted show

from engine failures, camshafts,doors,radiators,oil leaks, rust, transfeer boxes, gearbox problems.

This unfortunately doesnt apply to the Defenders that are abused, but all of them


Review

Bad Points
Don't touch the Td5 Engine - mine self destructed at 59 349 miles and 4 years old. Land Rover tell me this is acceptable so I have had to replace the engine (£5 000 all in ouch).

General Comments
There is a known fault with these Land Rover Defender 110 Td5 engines - if something fails and they overheat then the engine is destroyed - literally. Land Rover do not accept any responsibility for these engines after four years or over 60 000 miles (whichever is the sooner). Not exactly built to last. This vehicle had a FSH


I dont write the reviews, you would think simplicity would make them reliable, it doesent.....
The engineering in Defenders is simply bad, and the last time I saw a news clip about cocklers it seemed they had moved to tractors.


Defenders are popular in the UK because of politics, British Engineering, and were homegrown.
If the Irish built a cheaper and better 4x4 than the Defender, you would still have Uk agencies, SAS etc using Defenders as they are UK born, thats the only reason.

If you want a tow vehicle, it must be not reliable, but bullet proof,

Its not normal to have to put diesel in one place, replacement engine and gear oil somewhere else, and pour Waxol into doors, you couldnt have a cobblelock driveway and have a Defender in it, you just couldnt.

British car engineering is leagues away from Jap engineered stuff, Japanese 4x4s wont let you down ,and as I said earlier Defenders are for enthuasists, guys who have the time, to do the recalls and repairs, the rustproofing, rebuilding, have the time to go on mechanics courses, or gearbox courses, they are flawed tow vehicles.

[eupa]

If you want a tow vehicle, it must be not reliable, but bullet proof

I recall that about 5 months ago Jeremy Clarkson and his gang tried to destroy a Toyota diesel pick up. What was it---

- they immersed in the sea
- they set fire to it
- they dropped it from a 100 ft
- they crashed it

But it was still drivable and in fact was driven away at the the end of the program. They could not destroy it. What was it the Taliban used to rout the northern alliance - the toyota pick up with a mounted 27mm mg. Unbeatable. God help the SAS if they come up against the toyota in their rudimentary defenders

Jonathan

[peteb]

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

If you want a tow vehicle, it must be not reliable, but bullet proof

I recall that about 5 months ago Jeremy Clarkson and his gang tried to destroy a Toyota diesel pick up. What was it---

- they immersed in the sea
- they set fire to it
- they dropped it from a 100 ft
- they crashed it

But it was still drivable and in fact was driven away at the the end of the program. They could not destroy it. What was it the Taliban used to rout the northern alliance - the toyota pick up with a mounted 27mm mg. Unbeatable. God help the SAS if they come up against the toyota in their rudimentary defenders

Jonathan

For God's sake it was tongue in cheek TV entertainment!!! Every day in remote parts of Africa ancient Land Rover's are subjected to plenty of abuse - and they keep going for years!!!

Have a look at these

http://www.teamsaluki.com/

They use an old Land Rover that - compared with the Toyota and Mitsubishi teams they race against - is very much the same as an original vehicle. They have a tiny budget and yet beat far better funded vehicles. The difference is they use their vehicle year after year - the Jap stuff is rebuilt after every race!!!

What annoys me SO much is how people are so quick to slag off British stuff and yet choose to ignore glaring faults with other cars!!!

Land Rover's rust??? Ever seen a 20 year old Toyota, suzuki jeep or isuzu??? FAR WORSE!!!

If landrover's were so bad they would have shit resuiduals and there wouldn't still be 70% of them ever made still running!!!

Even the SCUM at Greenpeace have targetted LandRover now - not Misubishi or Mercedes or BMW but Land Rover!!!

[nugent]

my imput,
i have 2 tow vehicles one for the summer and one for winter,,both land rover origin wouldnt have any thing else,,

guess which one gets in the mud winter launching

[eupa]

............. well nice number plate.

Jonathan

[nugent]

this one isnt bad either

[eupa]

hope it doesn' t relate to the owner

[gavin]

Even the SCUM at Greenpeace have targetted LandRover now - not Misubishi or Mercedes or BMW but Land Rover!!! Quote



The reason for this is blantley obvious, poor mpg co more carbon emmisions
lots of oil leaks , bad for the environment especially

unrelaible, so lots of oil filled bits go to landfill
scrap metal etc, engine parts, all feeding landfill and orange rust everywhere.


here is a page from 4wdonline.com

Faults

Defenders, steering box, half-shafts, 1999+/-
Late 1999, recall to replace (in au) leaking steering boxes on 300 Tdi's.

1999+/-: Some cases of late 1990s Defenders, particularly 130s, breaking rear Salisbury half-shafts (supposed to be nearly indestructible). Land Rover have replaced some half shafts.

Defenders, rear hub bearings & oil seals
Land Rover hub oil seals used to leak frequently, often caused by the axle breathers getting blocked, and putting oil onto the rear brakes (not good). About the 1980s, they started using double lipped oil seals which are better, although harder to fit correctly. At some time in the 1990s(?) an oil seal was installed to run on the rear half shaft, thus separating the diff' (oil lubricated) from the hub (now grease lubricated). This pretty much stopped rear hub oil leaks. Unfortunately, water could sometimes still get into the rear hub, e.g. on deep water crossings, where it only had grease to contend with. Result: Early rear wheel bearing failure unless the rear hubs are checked regularly after wading. Some owners, prefering to risk an oil leak over a bearing failure, have gone so far as to remove the internal oil seal, although regular checks for water ingress would do as well.

200 - 300 Series Tdi Diesel Timing Belt Failures.
There were several reports of timing belts failing prematurely on the 200-series Tdi diesel engines (Discovery and Defender). Unfortunately this causes the pistons to hit the valves and can result in extensive and expensive engine damage. It is recommended that the belt be changed on time at the recommended intervals or early, particularly with the 200-series motor.

Some failures are due to driver error when water and/or mud enters through the housing drain-hole if the drain-plug is not fitted before wading.

The 300-series engine has a larger timing belt but on some early 300 Tdi models there was a problem with the injector mount alignment, resulting in excessive wear of the belt and failure at about 30,000km as described in LR technical bulletin 12/13/96/EN.

It is recommended that the manufacturer's instructions are followed very carefully when replacing timing belts particularly with torquing the bolts on the cover and auxiliary fittings (see below). The crankshaft oil seals should also be checked for leaks.

Land Rover Tdi Head Gasket
1997: I recently blew the head gasket on my Land Rover 200 Tdi and it was only luck that saved the engine. The oil warning light did not activate and I am told that by the time the light does activate the damage is done.
I have replaced the non adjustable oil pressure switch with an adjustable one and connected a buzzer. Land Rover Australia are unable to tell me what the standard switch is set at and indeed what is the recommended minimum oil pressure.
- Scott Learmont

[This the 2nd in one week. Timing belts we knew could be a problem; are there more head-cases out there? The main danger from a head-gasket failure is loss of cooling water, overheating and a warped head. The start of a problem can sometimes be detected by regular water (and oil) checks, bubbles in the radiator water with engine running (but don't open a hot cooling system!). A slow failure can also put water in the oil, destroy the oil's properties and cause various damage.]

Thanks for your comments. In my case the gasket blew at 135,000km; a film of oil was spewed over the engine bay. Oil is changed every 5000km and water levels checked regularly. The mechanic who pulled the head off said that the gasket had gone at the back of the head, he thought that two head bolts were not fully tensioned, the head had never been off.
Interesting about the timing belts, I had mine done at 90,000km and it looked fine. I intend to do it again at 180,000km. A couple of club members (LROCS) have commented about how their belts have showed deterioration, one bloke saying his had 1/2 inch chewed off the width. As far as I know, no member has had a belt break. Members were also advised that it was important that the air-conditioning compressor was unbolted for the belt replacement process and was not re-attached until the very last, if it was it may cause the belt to loose alignment.

[In another head-gasket case, engine oil was drawn into the cylinders; the engine started dieseling on this oil and ran up to 7000r - scary.]

LT230 Transfer Case Wear
LT230 transfer cases: early units suffered wear on the gearbox output-shaft and transfer-case input-gear. The symptoms are clunks, i.e. backlash, in the transmission especially at low speed in low gears. The fix was to fit a splash ring (bulletin H415) to the shaft which improved lubrication of the splines. Transfer cases with this modification should have a prominent paint mark on their rear cover plate. (At least one Land Rover club member effected an alternative cure in the shape of a small piece of sheet metal arranged to feed extra oil onto the same location.) The matter is discussed in Land Rover bulletin "37/20/96" covering Discovery LJ 178205, Discovery LJ 506525 and Defender LD 976480 and later, Should the shaft and gear fail, the bill for a replacement and for reconditioning the transfer case may be 1000; make sure the later shaft and gear are used. From the introduction of suffix F, transfer box numbers 28D 460996 F Discovery, and 22D 461124 F Defender, the LT230 transfer boxes have had longer splines and cross-drilled oil feed holes thus solving the problem.

Go to the general 4WD faults or Land Rover pages

What more can I say

[eupa]

it prety well speaks for itself---- and this has been around for the last 50 years. Not 5 Codprawn but 50 thats 5 with a zero tacked on

Jonathan

[peteb]

[codprawn]

Gavin - haven't you noticed most of the complaints come from Australia - they seem as keen to knock things from the UK as the Irish do!!!

I see you have gone to a lot of trouble to find BAD things people say about Land Rover - what about the GOOD????

Have you looked to see what sort of problems people have with other vehicles???

My mate STILL has a Shogun sitting in his garage because the head has cracked in several places - at 50,000 miles. THREE friends of mine bought imported Pajeros from Ireland - ALL 3 have had to have auto boxes rebuilt - the guy in Swansea keeps several in stock because he said they go all the time!!!

Until YOU have experienced problems yourself just shut up until you actually have the experience to mouth off.

[peteb]

I have had the most worrying weekend, I even went to look at Suzuki Vitara's as a backup plan Only joking

When doing my research I checked google for Land Rover defender problems, faults, complaints and considering how many have been sold and are still going, very, very little came up. I was however so surprised at how many companies sell parts for them, this I guess is a good thing as they look cheap, but I didn't pay all that money to be underneath one every weekend.

Anyway I took the plunge after Cod convinced me they were a good thing I am sure I will have many many 'metres' af trouble free motoring

Thanks for all the help, I have been speechless for 2 days but after overhearing a conversation about BMW X5 3ltr diesels losing £1,200 a month at the moment due to the new engine coming out, and also the fact that the Merc ML and other overprices SUV's that are suffering recent heavy losses due to the fact that in the last few months the bottom has fallen out of the market I am quite happy with my bargain

Thanks, I will keep you updated, now where was that accessory book?

[Phil Davies]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Gavin - haven't you noticed most of the complaints come from Australia - they seem as keen to knock things from the UK as the Irish do!!!

Yes, well spotted, Codders. The words 'shoulder' and 'chip' spring readily to mind. Perhaps if this mottly crew of convicts and gypsies got on with developing a manufacturing industry of their own rather than slagging off other people's, we'd take a modicum of interest in what they had to say.