Energy saving

[codprawn]

I have just switched back to a naked 100W lightbulb - what a difference over the energy saving ones. Instant bright light - much better!!!

I am starting to wonder if you really save anything using an energy saving bulb. Britain doesn't have much of a summer so the rest of the time it's pretty cold. A normal lightbulb wastes most of it's energy as heat. Now that heat goes into your house and as most houses have thermostatically controlled heating then it obviously follows that the heating in the house will need to come on less often.

The same hold true for TVs and other household appliances. Well insulated houses often don't turn their heating on until October/November - I suspect they would have to turn them on sooner without the heat being giving off by electrical equipment.

[Biggles]

That will be the energy saving bulbs that cost 100 times more than a cheap light bulb I take it.

[Downhilldai]

Nice one CP
But which form of heating is more environmentally friendly - nasty power station generated electricity for your bulbs & TVs or a whiff of natural gas for your super-mega, energy efficient, tree-hugging condensing boiler?

[Biggles]

Fluorescent lights save power compared to an old fashioned bulb once they are up and running. But starting them is very power intensive. That bit isn't mentioned on the green sights.
Where I work in an effort to be green all lights come on automatically. I work in very large rooms and once you enter a door loads of lights come on for a minimum of 30 seconds even if your just going to a locker just inside the door. Daft !! But no doubt someones got a nice job out of it and if the statistics are shown in a favourable light (No pun intended) then the figures look impressive.

Some of these people that harp on about green issues need to get a life rather than a degree that every one seems to get nowadays.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

natural gas for your super-mega, energy efficient, tree-hugging condensing boiler?

My boiler engineer told me that modern boilers are very efficient in converting gas to heat but they have serious reliability issues that more than outway the cost savings of buying new.

Its a bit like perpetual motion. You don't get anything for nothing. Only fools believe otherwise.

[Biggles]

As I say to the kids. If your cold put a jumper on !!! And to the missus put two jumpers on and stop moaning.

Funny thing is you talk to the kids about energy issues and global warming and they just think your stupid.

Central heating is seriously unhealthy. It just drags you down !!!!

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Nice one CP
But which form of heating is more environmentally friendly - nasty power station generated electricity for your bulbs & TVs or a whiff of natural gas for your super-mega, energy efficient, tree-hugging condensing boiler?

Which is more environmentally friendly - stupid electric Toyotas running on nasty power station generated electricity, or a V8 running on LPG

[mdt]

Originally Posted by BogMonster

Which is more environmentally friendly - stupid electric Toyotas running on nasty power station generated electricity, or a V8 running on LPG

don't know.... but I do know which sounds better when it passes

[codprawn]

They have now worked out that bio diesel uses 70% more energy than you get out of it - that's not counting the damage being done to rainforests etc where they are chopping everything down to grow the damn stuff!!!

The mentalists have a lot to answer for!!!

[9D280]

Morrisons were flogging 100W equivalent "low energy" jobs for 38p a few weeks ago. The good thing is you can put a "100w" bulb where only a 60 would fear to go, so lots more light! (Ands these ones come on pretty sharpish to full brightness too)

As for the battery poeweredc cars, what about all the extra energy used to lug the batteries around and the ***t that is the fallout of making said batteries & the mining of the minerals & metals to make them from?

Now where did I leave those CP41s........

[codprawn]

Low energy bulbs are pretty cheap now and they do last longer but the light just isn't the same - there is a lot of UV in it which can't do our eyes much good.

Thes best energy saving bulbs I have ever used are the 2d bulbs which look a bit like a kettle element. They last so much longer than the normal energy saving bulbs. Typically about 10 years in normal domestic use!!!

Totally agree about electric cars. Batteries are still crap and the losses of energy during transmission mean that you are much better off with a modern efficient engine. The Toyota Pious for example does the equiv of about 40mpg - my old Rover diesel does 48mpg!!!

[jyasaki]

If you're talking about Compact Flourescent bulbs, there's still the issue of how to dispose of them: They contain small (really small) amounts of mercury, which (here, at least) is banned from being dumped in landfills.

So, all the knowledgable energy consumption folks are pushing to use CF bulbs, with no thought as to where they're going to dispose of them later (they last longer than normal bulbs, but will still eventually die.)

jky

[Limey Linda]

Did you know that the UK Gov. provides these CF bulbs to ALL old age pensioners free of charge. No wonder the country is going broke.

[codprawn]

Yes and then the old dears huddle around their electric fires because the central heating doesn't get hot enough!!!

[MikeCC]

Originally Posted by Biggles

My boiler engineer told me that modern boilers are very efficient in converting gas to heat but they have serious reliability issues that more than outway the cost savings of buying new.

Too right - we put one in 9 years ago when we refurbished the house and it's crap. We haven't trusted it for some time, but terminall failure now (at least £300+ worth), so might as well get a new one. A cast-iron core boiler can last for 25 years plus. Scrap boiler anyone? Nice bit of ali in there somewhere!

Do you know a reliable gas installer locally Nick?

Oh, and we're all doomed anyway. How can they talk about carbon footprints when so much rainforest is being destroyed every day? And is the carbon exchange business the next big thing? Looks like a big scam to me. As Garfie's tagline says, beware of smoke and mirrors!

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Fluorescent lights save power compared to an old fashioned bulb once they are up and running. But starting them is very power intensive. That bit isn't mentioned on the green sights.
.

Are you sure about that?

My meter doesn't spin dramatically around when I switch on a Flu tube.

[DJL]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Fluorescent lights save power compared to an old fashioned bulb once they are up and running. But starting them is very power intensive. That bit isn't mentioned on the green sights.

That’s a bit of a myth. The start up power used is equivalent to running a incandescent bulb for several milliseconds.

Energy use during manufacture is higher, but I would suspect over the lifetime of the bulb, especially in high use scenarios, it becomes fairly significant.

With regards to the mercury - apart from the problems of breaking in the home, relative overall levels of mercury emitted into the environment are lower with energy saving bulbs, assuming a coal power station. Levels will be relatively higher when powered by gas/nuclear/wind power sources. Recycling can reduce levels further, but then your back into using more power. Big circular situation really.

IMHO unless we move away from burning fossil fuels none of these little changes will make much difference. Bring on fusion power stations.

[codprawn]

it is a bit of a myth about the tubes needing more energy BUT a lot depends on temp. My workshop is freezing - energy saving bulbs take for ever to get up to full brightness and draw a fair old current when doing so - in a nice warm room it's a different story.

[tinker]

LED lights are the way to go. Its the future, I know Ive seen em