Independent or RNLI? Coastguard not sure?

C2 RIBS · 05 September 2013, 17:34

This reads badly for coastguard services- accept we only get a reporters view

Chris Vanstone: Scuba diver died after rescue was delayed by 20 minutes following a bitter row between lifeguards | Mail Online

Caister appear to have the fastest service available

Mollers · 05 September 2013, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Chris-Vanstone-Scuba-diver-died

Hey Guys, they have Ribnet up here.

willk · 05 September 2013, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

Hey Guys, they have Ribnet up here.

Yeah, no. We have RIBnet DOWN here!

Mollers · 05 September 2013, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Yeah, no. We have RIBnet DOWN here!

Oh Sh*t.

Poly · 06 September 2013, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

This reads badly for coastguard services- accept we only get a Daily Mailreporters view

FTFY!

I can see why it MIGHT have been the right decision.

- fastest way to get casualty to hospital = helo.
- most appropriate boat to escort dive boat ashore = RNLI one if they were heading back to 'its base' anyway.

There's politics (with a small p) involved in voluntary organisations and smarter organisations might have approached this as a quiet discussion about 'lessons that can be learned'.

postie · 06 September 2013, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

FTFY!

I can see why it MIGHT have been the right decision.

- fastest way to get casualty to hospital = helo.
- most appropriate boat to escort dive boat ashore = RNLI one if they were heading back to 'its base' anyway.

There's politics (with a small p) involved in voluntary organisations and smarter organisations might have approached this as a quiet discussion about 'lessons that can be learned'.

Not like the Daily Mail to stir the pot in these situations....... Either way some poor soul lost his life and lessons should be learned and noted.

C2 RIBS · 06 September 2013, 10:05

I read it on line but now DM singled out- google searched and they are not the only ones reporting this issue, I would guess they picked it off local reports here-
Update: Caister independent lifeboat

Update: Caister independent lifeboat

Irrelevant how reported, the fact is "Either way some poor soul lost his life and lessons should be learned and noted". Mine was not a politcal post just that someone died and now there was an arguement about how resourced. We are well covered on The Solent by independents and they doa great job and are used all the time instead of RNLI quite regularly

willk · 06 September 2013, 10:21

It does sound like a bit of Empire Building there Poly. Mind you, it's a press report, so you have to take it with a pinch of seasalt. It's aMazdaing how inaccuracies can sometoms creep into copy.

Still, if you surface unconscious after a dive, you want to be heading directly to hospital, not just shorewards. A helo is the best option in this case, IMO. There is no-one on a diveboat able to call a death by drowning, so all parties will have had to proceed as though there was a chance of recovery.

As for the buddy, if there is any question of decompression sickness, they get treated the same way as the vic. In this case they went with the Lifeboat so it was probably just to get them out of the way. Any time one of my clients has died on site, I've always had more difficulty with their associates. The emergency services can be quite understanding and take them away too

postie · 06 September 2013, 10:53

[QUOTE=C2 RIBS;567793]I read it on line but now DM singled out- google searched and they are not the only ones reporting this issue, I would guess they picked it off local reports here-
Update: Caister independent lifeboat

Update: Caister independent lifeboat

Irrelevant how reported, the fact is "Either way some poor soul lost his life and lessons should be learned and noted". Mine was not a politcal post just that someone died and now there was an arguement about how resourced. We are well covered on The Solent by independents and they doa great job and are used all the time instead of RNLI quite regularly[/QUOTE]

I wasn't having a dig at you, more the DM has a style of reporting that doesn't sit we'll with me. You are correct in highlighting the biggest tragedy is the death.

Poly · 06 September 2013, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Irrelevant how reported, the fact is "Either way some poor soul lost his life and lessons should be learned and noted".

Even the Daily Mail article doesn't suggest that the outcome would have been any different if the Caister boat has launched:

Quote:

Although the delay was not the difference between life and death for Mr Vanstone, who could not have been saved even by the closer boast,

IanT · 06 September 2013, 12:40

Im only trained to rescue diver level so not exactly an authority but Id have suspected that (as with all diving related accidents) there is a need to get the diver (and likely buddy) to a Deco chamber as soon as possible as DCS is always a possibility even if not the immediate issue.

The nearest chamber can of course be quite a distance away and not at the nearest hospital. The Helo is the most flexible route and can easily divert to wherever is needed. If the dive boat was already administering O2 (which it should have been) any rescue boat cannot do any more than this apart from head to shore. The Helo would then be the best choice even if it took 20mins longer to be on scene.

Just my thoughts but i believe the DAN guidelines tend to opt for Helo as first option...

Ian

C2 RIBS · 06 September 2013, 12:57

seems I started a ** storm. There appears to be some issues about what service is used. The nearest has to be first call and head with casualty towards shore, Helicopter could then have a shorter lift time and collect casualty of fastest rescue running for shore- Not saying deceased would have survived but Caister may well have a arguement they were excluded and could have got running back fast well before other support to get to them.

If I had an injured/dying party aboard and a fast response unit could be with me in less time and as outline 20-30 mins ahead of others I would have been very happy to see their support on scene. I have only been at one incident just offshore and then involved Helicopter for casulaty from shore pick up and thats very disturbing. Any help offered by professionals is very welcome

IanT · 06 September 2013, 13:02

exactly - it is surprising they didn't send both...

willk · 06 September 2013, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

seems I started a ** storm. There appears to be some issues about what service is used. The nearest has to be first call and head with casualty towards shore, Helicopter could then have a shorter lift time and collect casualty of fastest rescue running for shore- Not saying deceased would have survived but Caister may well have a arguement they were excluded and could have got running back fast well before other support to get to them.

If I had an injured/dying party aboard and a fast response unit could be with me in less time and as outline 20-30 mins ahead of others I would have been very happy to see their support on scene. I have only been at one incident just offshore and then involved Helicopter for casulaty from shore pick up and thats very disturbing. Any help offered by professionals is very welcome

That's all understood. However, DCS vics are like cans of soda - best not dropped or shaken. I am also an sports Rescue Diver and we were always warned about excessive jolting and even driving on bumpy roads at speed. Transhipping someone with DCS and racing towards shore is not a great plan. Helo crew are professionally trained to deal with these situations. No reason not to have other services standing by. The Coast Guard aren't so late. They'll have had their reasons.

ribrunt · 06 September 2013, 13:36

Also not sure if winch from Caister as feasible as winch from an ALB. Equally, some chatter on a SAR forum suggests time gap would be less than 20 mins.

MustRib · 06 September 2013, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

It's aMazdaing how inaccuracies can sometoms creep into copy.

willk · 06 September 2013, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustRib

Dammit - I had corrected those mistakes! Someone on the Comedy Team must have slipped them in....

MustRib · 06 September 2013, 14:57

am hoping for a place on Team Comedy next year, just cant figure out how to put a big red nose on the front of the Rib !

jyasaki · 07 September 2013, 23:16

Quote:

Id have suspected that (as with all diving related accidents) there is a need to get the diver (and likely buddy) to a Deco chamber as soon as possible as DCS is always a possibility even if not the immediate issue.

CPR on board the dive boat implies the diver's heart and/or lungs were not working. Doubtful that a chamber ride would have been prescribed until those were stabilized.

Boat crew on-scene means more bodies to continue emergency care (plus most likely a bigger arsenal of emergency equipment); can't see that as a bad thing even if the ultimate transport was to be by helicopter.

jky

Poly · 07 September 2013, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyasaki

CPR on board the dive boat implies the diver's heart and/or lungs were not working. Doubtful that a chamber ride would have been prescribed until those were stabilized.

Boat crew on-scene means more bodies to continue emergency care (plus most likely a bigger arsenal of emergency equipment); can't see that as a bad thing even if the ultimate transport was to be by helicopter.

Its unlikely that the lifeboat would bring extra resource beyond that in the helo for a single casualty evacuation. Lifeboats here don't automatically carry paramedics and may not have a defib on board. Both would be on the helo.