Long question about renting property

[Tim M]

I rent a flat in Portsmouth with a friend. We first looked round at the beginning of Jan this year, when the place was being renovated. The renovations were in their final stages (decorating etc) and we were told that if we decided to go for it, everything would be finished by the time we moved in (at the beginning of Feb). We signed the contract and handed over a bag full of notes for a deposit and then sat back and waited for moving in day.

When we moved it, it became apparent there were quite a few issues with the place, and several things that hadn't been finished. We made our letting agents aware. Amoungst the issues were: the TV socket in the sitting room didn't work, my bedroom door didn't close (brand new door was far too big for the frame), keys kept getting stuck in the front door, the window in the other bedroom was damaged, there were no smoke alarms, the washbasin in the bathroom appeared to drain into the bath, and the bath didn't really drain at all. Oh yes and the oven wasn't attached to the wall so when you opened it you ran the risk of it falling on top of you. All in all less than ideal.

The builder came and sorted a few of the issues, but some remained. He was far more interested in renovating the flat above ours, which was also owned by our landlady.

Several months, a break-in, a stolen life raft, a flooded bathroom (as a result of a blocked waste pipe that we had to sort out selves) and two punctures on my car (as a result of the builder leaving nails and screws on the driveway) and a DIY tv ariel installation in order to be able to watch television, we have our latest disaster. We both came home on Monday afternoon to find my house mates room flooded. There was water literally pouring out of the ceiling and running down the light fitting. You could see the newly put up ceiling was totally saturated, with water running down the wall and all over his stuff. Neither of us were impressed! We called the "emergency" number given to us by our letting agents only to be told there was nothing the chap could do on a bank holiday Monday as he wasn't a plummer. Taking matters into our own hands we found stopcock for upstairs and turned it off, although it later turned out the leak was coming from a pipe that seemingly bypassed the stop cock (a result of yet another bodge by the trusty builder).

Him room is totally inhabitable at the moment. The builder has removed all the carpet, and the room is still very damp. The ceiling is sagging in the middle and is cracked. In our opinion it needs ripping out and replacing, not to mention the wiring for the lights which must also be saturated.

He has moved into his parents place for the time being. We have been pondering on what our rights in this situation actually are, and as far as we can see, if the the place isn't habitable for longer than 14 days we can end the contract immediately. I personally don't think it will be sorted before then, as the builder is incapable of doing anything quickly.

In terms of other rights, what do people think. We don't think we should be paying full rent as there are lots of issues which, despite us moaning repeatedly, haven't been sorted. I understand having smoke alarms is actually a legal requirement for a rental property. Does anyone who rents property out have any thoughts on all of this?

[Nos4r2]

Give the letting agent notice that you're going to stop paying rent until the problems are sorted-and stop paying them 'til the problems are sorted to your satisfaction.
Don't give them any leeway on this or they'll take the mick even more. Smoke alarms are a legal requirement.
Oh, and withhold rent to the value of the damage caused to yours/your flatmate's kit-unless details are given so you can claim directly from the landlord's insurance.

Letting contracts work both ways.

[rib-x450]

You should have an ASST Assured Short Hold Tennacy 6 months?

Write to the land lord and inform them of all the problems, and set a date to ask them to fix it.

You dont need to renew at the end of your AST an can exend with no contract for a couple of months if you need to. If the stuff isnt sorted, drop the landlord in at and move out when it suits you after the end of the AST agreement.

They will loose money as the palce will be empty while they then need to sort all the problems.

If they hold a deposit it by law should be help by an agent, not usually the landlord due to a chage on the law in April I thinnk last year.

I dont think you can withhold rent legally............

Have a look at these

http://www.arla.co.uk

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/ This one is very good..........

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.c...bligations.htm The landlords obligations are clear in this one.

Hope its useful.......

Rib-x450

[PeterM]

Not sure about the tennancy stuff - but the comments already sound good. If you have any contents insurance it might pay for alternative accomodation until its all fixed ( assuming its deemed uninhabitable - which it does sound like) . Or you may have legal cover for something like 50k worth - or at least a free legal helpline.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by rib-x450

You should have an ASST Assured Short Hold Tennacy 6 months?

Write to the land lord and inform them of all the problems, and set a date to ask them to fix it.

You dont need to renew at the end of your AST an can exend with no contract for a couple of months if you need to. If the stuff isnt sorted, drop the landlord in at and move out when it suits you after the end of the AST agreement.

They will loose money as the palce will be empty while they then need to sort all the problems.

If they hold a deposit it by law should be help by an agent, not usually the landlord due to a chage on the law in April I thinnk last year.

I dont think you can withhold rent legally............

Have a look at these

http://www.arla.co.uk

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/ This one is very good..........

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.c...bligations.htm The landlords obligations are clear in this one.

Hope its useful.......

Rib-x450

You can't be legally rented a property which is uninhabitable and doesn't pass the fire regulations-therefore by accepting rent on it the landlord is breaking the law.

The landlord can't re-let it in the current state and if it's already got tenants with a contract who are willing to pay as soon as repairs are completed, it'll save them a lot of money.

It's catch 22-but as the inhabitant you hold more cards than the landlord.
However, given the record of thefts and bad maintenance I'd move out as soon as you can. Crap landlords don't improve.

[Mollers]

I'm a commercial property landlord, we jump through hoops to keep our tenants happy and the buildings in good order.
We don't have or require lengthy, complicated tenancy agreements, we've only had one issue in 11yrs.
The way to gain the advantage over a dodgy landlord is to give notice and tell them to take the deposit as the final months rent. This might contravine your agreement, but I doubt very much if he/she will persue you via a court. If this is the way that your landlord chooses to operate their business, you'd be better off out of the place.

[slimtim]

Tim,

Myself and a group of friends viewed a property whilst at university which was under renovation. As you well know, most student lets run from June till June so it was agreed that the house would be finished by the beginning of the summer.

It wasn't ready in time and was essentially uninhabitable (no beds, painting unfinished etc.) for 3-4 months over the summer. We sent the landlord a letter asking for our rent back for those summer months and suggested we would take legal action if he refused. He promptly shat his pants and refunded us. As far as I can remember when we looked into it, if you are paying the full agreed rent, the house must be have adequate facilities and be in a suitable condition to live in. Yours obviously isn't...the lack of smoke alarms makes that so straight away!

This is all fairly obvious and I'm sure you know it all already but thought I'd share.

Tim

[GuyP]

Originally Posted by rib-x450

If they hold a deposit it by law should be help by an agent, not usually the landlord due to a chage on the law in April I thinnk last year.
Rib-x450

That's true but it's not a formal escrow. The agent effectively works for the landlord so you're still unlikely to see your deposit back.

Originally Posted by Mollers

The way to gain the advantage over a dodgy landlord is to give notice and tell them to take the deposit as the final months rent.

Agreed - I've did that a couple of times on rentals in London. I actually think it's the best way to terminate any rental agreement as you're assured of getting your deposit back! (unless it's 6 weeks deposit you've paid)

[JSP]

How you getting on with this Tim?

[Tim M]

Thanks for all the advice.

The latest is, well, there isn't really any latest. The builder has been in to have a look at the damage: "yer you've had a leak in there". Typical. We've moaned to the landlady, and the agents, and no-one seems that bothered. They were more worried about the RIB I had parked on the drive - they went out of their way last week to contact both of us to moan about that but when it came to the leak we had to profusely pester them!

Having read through the contract again, we believe now that if there is an issue with the property which makes it uninhabitable for longer than 14 days we have the right to end the contract. It's been a week today, and I really can't see them having it sorted by this time next week.

It's a very irritating situation. My house mate currently has a reasonable commute to work from his parents house, which he intends to charge someone for. The agents refused to give us details of the insurer who's going to cough up for this, so at the moment we are literally in their hands. I think the way we have been treated is totally outrageous; my mother rents out property and if theres a problem the agent is straight on the phone telling her, as well as arranging repairs same day.

[JSP]

Maybe best to stay off there back until the 14 days are up mate. Does your mother have any legal adviser to hand for her property? Question is though, where are you going to live!?

[Pete7]

Tim,

Cooker hanging off is there gas in the property? you have seen the annual inspection certificates then? no thought not. Think there is one for electrics now as well. Local council will be interested in your plight if you want to go that route.

Pete

[SDGANDER]

Maybe worth serving a county court summons on the letting agency for the total amount of the damaged property? That will certainly wake them up to the fact they need to start playing ball.

Make sure in the details section of the summons that you point out they refused to give you the insurer's details, etc.

SDG

[MikeCC]

Originally Posted by SDGANDER

Maybe worth serving a county court summons on the letting agency for the total amount of the damaged property?

One nice little trick here is to fill in all the papers but not actually file with the court. Fax or post them to the agent and landlord just to let them know you've got your case lined up if they don't get it sorted. Do be clear that it's not an actual summons, just notice of the action you may take.

[Trailer Bloke]

Tim

Has the following happened by the way:

Start of a new tenancy

At the beginning of a new tenancy agreement, pay your deposit to your landlord or agent as usual.

Within 14 days, the landlord or agent is required to give you details about how your deposit is protected including:

the contact details of the tenancy deposit scheme
the contact details of the landlord or agent
how to apply for the release of the deposit
information explaining the purpose of the deposit
what to do if there is a dispute about the deposit
If you don’t get this information, ask your landlord or agent the simple question – ‘how is my deposit protected?’

You have a responsibility to return the property in the same condition that it was let to you, allowing for fair wear and tear.

More information on the type of schemes available What if your landlord isn’t protecting your deposit?
You can apply to your local county court. The court can order the landlord or agent to either repay the deposit to you or protect it in a scheme. If your landlord or agent has not protected your deposit, they will be ordered to repay three times the amount of the deposit to you.

Worth asking if they have protected your deposit (introduced April 7th 2007)
Courts take a dim view of agents that dont!

[Tim M]

Dear xxxx.

I am writing to express my concern over this property. Ever since we moved in, we have been subjected to numerous problems which have dramatically affected our quality of living. Both my self and Rich have notified you and Gosgroves on numerous occasions about various issues/faults etc, which have generally taken some time to resolve, if resolved at all. A prime example is when the bathroom flooded shortly after we moved in. We notified AGENT, your self, and BUILDER when it first happened, yet nothing happened for several days. I ended unblocking the waste pipe my self in order to resolve the problem; I don’t think as a tenant I should have to do this.

Other issues, such as the lack of fire alarms (which, under common law, means you a duty of care to us, rendering you potentially responsible should a fire occur without them), my bedroom door which still does not close, the trailing wires across the kitchen and sitting room which are our only means of connecting a television to the ariel (despite the fact you told us the socket would be repaired) are still unresolved four months later.

As you know, we have also had an attempted break-in, a theft from the garden, water coming through the kitchen ceiling onto my microwave, the flood in the bathroom which I have already mentioned, and of course the recent flooding of Rich’s bedroom. The later, for me, is the final straw. That incident (which as far as I can gather could have been avoided if the plumber had fixed the leaking tap when it first started leaking) happened nearly two weeks ago now, and I have only seen BUILDER on two occasions, the first of which was to assess the damage, the second of which was to change a light bulb and put some filler in the cracks in the ceiling. Whilst Rich’s bedroom is un-habitable, he is being forced to live elsewhere, likewise I am confined to my bedroom, as we are having to use the conservatory and sitting room for the storage of his positions.

I note that in a recent communication with him, you stated that the reason behind the delay was “in order to finish the property to the highest possible standard”. I am afraid I strongly disagree with this statement; this property is not finished to a good standard. Examples being the poor quality of the decorating work (spots of wrongly coloured paint on surfaces, paint on light switches, poor cutting in, etc), cable trunking and sockets left unfinished (examples, old cable trunking with exposed wiring in my bedroom by the door, open socket in bathroom) and a variety of other “bodges” such as poor quality repairs to door frames, incorrect units installed in the kitchen (cupboard doors, fridge/freezer, inbuilt washing machine installed as a non inbuilt unit, electrics which require spot lighting to be on in order for extractor fan to work) and poor quality tiling in the bathroom (tiles around the window and underneath the shower are lifting, and several of the tiles around the basin have holes in them).

There was also the promise, by Gosgroves of curtains being put up before we moved in. This never happened. Whilst I will accept that some of the issues we have had were resolved (such as the fridge door not closing), overall, we are bitterly disappointed with both the quality of the accommodation, and the service we have received from all parties concerned. We are in the process of taking legal advice on the matter to find out exactly where we stand. At this stage, I keen to vacate the property as soon as possible; I consider the living conditions to be below what is acceptable, and indeed dangerous given the lack of fire alarms.



Thanks for all the advice. The above is the email I sent to her the other day. Following that, she came round with the letting agent, and the dodgy builder on Saturday. Unfortunately I couldn't be here, although my house mate was. They addressed the ceiling issue - apparently the leak was more serious than they thought so its going to be another two weeks or so before his room is habitable again. The plumbers insurance company is going to pay for his damaged stuff, although they are being a bit useless. Non of the points in my email above were really addressed, although she did pick up on some other issues which I am apparently going to get in a letter any day now. This is the bit that really hacked me off. She is apparently going to inform me that I am not allowed to keep anything to do with boats in, or outside the house, on the grounds that it a: makes the place look untidy (I had a Rib parked on the drive for a few days recently, and I have an inflated tube off an 8m in the garden. Very rich when theres also a skip on the drive full of the crap from the flat up stairs) and that it could cause damage/dirt in the house. Its not like Ive got a load of oily engine parts lying around; theres a few fenders, a couple of props and a load of life jackets in the conservatory. I am pretty sure she doesn't like me one little bit, and is going out of her way to irratate me. I intend to tell her that if thats what she wants, I'm moving out!
So yes, not really moving anywhere fast with this. I feel so helpless in all of this! Really need to get a solicitor to have a quick read of the contract for a professional opinion, as I said I'm pretty sure we move out before the end of the contract given all the trouble we're having. It's not like this is a particularly cheap flat either; we could be living in Gunwharf in a much nicer place for very similar money.

[Nos4r2]

She's probably got the hump because you've pulled her up on stuff.
I'd just find somewhere else.It's unlikely to get any easier.

Can you give a months notice in the contract?

[chewy]

Where in your contract does it say you can't keep boat parts in your flat? You might not be allowed to run a business from your flat but I can't see a problem with boat parts.
Tell her the life jackets aren't for a boat but for an aircraft, silly cow!

[Tim M]

Nos, we're tied in until the end of July (was a 6 month contract).

Chewy, I know! There is nothing in the contract that says what we can and can't keep in the house. I really don't think what I am keeping in here is unreasonable! If I was a Dr who kept a medical box in the house, should wouldn't be picking up on that! It's probably as Nos says - I'm causing her trouble hence shes trying to make life as difficult as possible. Oh well, fight fire with fire

[JSP]

Originally Posted by Tim M

...... Oh well, fight fire with fire