Manual vs Automatic Cars

[Jono]

Originally Posted by davidmanning

Yeh, but you Yellerlegs were only allowed to use the brakes on instruction from your Subbie who was usually asleep.

DM

*Lamp swinging*

Picture the scene... It's a freezing winter’s day.. there's ice on the ground... I'm driving the pump back to the station down a very steep side street onto a main road not far from the station..We are slowly entering the main road from the side street

Sub-O " Nice one Jono.. glad to see you easing out cautiously for a change"

Me " No sweat Sub... but I've actually still got the handbrake on"

Sub -O "...S**T !!!"...

[Jono]

*lamp still swinging*

Anyone know the Hagley Mile? It's a feckin' loooooong drag on the edge of our old patch.... we had a S&D pump that the Chief had obviously had on the cheap 'cause it was, quite frankly, crap. The brakes were air over hydraulic and it was one of the first auto boxes into service.... anyways.. we get a call out and feck off “toute-de-bloody-suite” to a "persons reported" at the top of the patch which means a good fifteen minute thrash including going up the mile... just as we get there, the stop goes in from our esteemed colleagues from "over the border" in Halesowen.. so we turns round and heads for home to enjoy a well-deserved tea and toast break....down the "Mile" we go.... approaching the..now red.. lights at the bottom of the hill....

Me... "Sub?"
Sub-O.. "Yes?"
Me " Don't mean to alarm you but..."
Sub-O "Yeeeeeeeees?"
Me " We ain't got no feckin' brakes left and I cant shift down this feckin' Auto box"
Sub-O " S**T !! "








We hit the bottom of the hill doing about 60 ish... with the lights'n horns on ..praying.... you won't believe how fast we went round the island and back up the hill to slow down... it was like a sling shot.....

[DM]

Originally Posted by codprawn

you said "why wreck an engine when you can use the brakes".

I know my memory is failing but I don't remember saying that. What I said is that you use your engine for GO and your brakes to STOP.

I shall recommend to the emergency services that Codprawns School of Motoring handbook immediately replaces the gobbledegook that generations of Police Driving Instructors have been peddling to us poor misinformed gullible fools.

DM

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by davidmanning

I know my memory is failing but I don't remember saying that. What I said is that you use your engine for GO and your brakes to STOP.

I shall recommend to the emergency services that Codprawns School of Motoring handbook immediately replaces the gobbledegook that generations of Police Driving Instructors have been peddling to us poor misinformed gullible fools.

DM

"Why use a very expensive engine to do the job of a cheap set of brake pads?" is exactly what you said.

One minute you seem to be saying use the brakes and not the engine to stop - then you say you must be "in the correct gear". Surely being in the correct gear means you WILL be using the engine to slow you down??? If not you may as well just chuck it into neutral......

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jono

We hit the bottom of the hill doing about 60 ish... with the lights'n horns on ..praying.... you won't believe how fast we went round the island and back up the hill to slow down... it was like a sling shot.....

Got to be honest the Firebrigade instructor did also say that with the sirens on you don't really need brakes and the correct gear to be in going downhill is top!!!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Got to be honest the Firebrigade instructor did also say that with the sirens on you don't really need brakes and the correct gear to be in going downhill is top!!!

Bollox!! ........ He was talking out of his arse then..The first reaction of most muppets on hearing the two tones coming up behind 'em was to slam the anchors on right in front of you...

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jono

Bollox!! ........ He was talking out of his arse then..The first reaction of most muppets on hearing the two tones coming up behind 'em was to slam the anchors on right in front of you...

err I think he was JOKING!!!!!

[DM]

Originally Posted by codprawn

"Why use a very expensive engine to do the job of a cheap set of brake pads?" is exactly what you said.

Ah. So my memory is not failing.

Originally Posted by codprawn

Surely being in the correct gear means you WILL be using the engine to slow you down

No, it doesn't.

DM

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by davidmanning

Ah. So my memory is not failing.




No, it doesn't.

DM

HOW??? Are you in the correct gear with your foot pressed down on the clutch then?

ANY gear will provide some engine braking - obviously the lower the gear the more the effect.

[Chopppywaters]

Originally Posted by Alan

Strangely, none of the cars seems to have had a reverse gear..........

this made me laugh out loud

[Chopppywaters]

Originally Posted by codprawn

HOW??? Are you in the correct gear with your foot pressed down on the clutch then?

ANY gear will provide some engine braking - obviously the lower the gear the more the effect.

when pressed down on the clutch the engine is pulled apart waiting to be put into gear......

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Obviously I drive vehicles a bit harder than you.

As you said, possibly it's driving technique.

Originally Posted by codprawn

How can you blankly state "you are wrong" because you own ONE of these??? I had BOTH the manual and the auto a short time apart - ok maybe I drive harder than most but I drove the auto the same as the manual - and there ARE differences.

Easy. You stated your point as though it was fact that all of these vehicles had that characteristic. Had you said that in your experience of driving one of these vehicle it was what you found to be the case, who am I to argue with that?

Because on long downhills you can get brake fade which is pretty scary!!!

Well yes, but you'd have to be seriously brutal with disc brakes to get them to the point of fading. I've seen mine red hot and still working fine. Drums would be a different story and it may be one of the reasons changing down to a lower gear is still recommended for heavy vehicles.

Whilst it is good practice on particularly steep hills, just as a vehicle control measure, the majority of british main roads do not have inclines steep enough to require it.

Your comment about changing an auto manually into a lower gear when approaching a junction and also not manually changing down into too low a gear, indicate that you're not particularly experienced in driving vehicles with auto boxes. In the first case that is entirely unnecessary and in the second case the auto box will not change down into a gear which is too low, even if you move the gear lever to a low position.

[Mark Halliday]

Ah Ha.

I knew I had seen Codprawn some where. He was the twit in front of me who suddenly went from 70 to 55 without showing any break lights 1 mile before a roundabout, then from 50 to 30 at 1/2 mile still without lights.
Must have been the 5th - 3rd change and then 3rd to 2nd.

Anyway back to auto boxes (sort of).
Torque converters sort of work in one direction and even less in the other. Pulling the lever back just makes the converter slip and has little effect on road speed.
How do I know? I have just been out and tried it.

[jwalker]

Cod, a question for you. While I'm aware of the rule/advice about using engine braking in preference to using the vehicle brakes and it is a long standing recommendation, explain to me the difference?

In one case, the engine is providing a load which acts upon the drive train and thence upon the wheel through the wheel mounting flange. In the second case the brakes are providing a load which is acting upon the wheel through the wheel mounting flange.

[Jono]

You take your foot off the pedal in the middle and

A) It’s surprisingly quiet (We’ll talk about “starting the engine” when you’ve mastered the basics)
B) The big van starts to roll (We’ll discuss that levery thing down by the side of your chair later)
C) Your colleague in the back starts to laugh nervously…

You press your right foot down on the right pedal and

A) The engine gets louder
B) The big van goes quicker
C) Your colleague in the back slips and sticks the needle straight in your patients eye

You take your right foot off the right pedal and

A) The engine gets quieter
B) The big van goes slower
C) Your colleague in the back misses the vein again

You press your right foot hard down on the pedal in the middle and

A) Those black rubbery things called tyres start to make a peculiar noise
B) The big van screeches to a halt
C) Your colleague in the back smashes into the bulkhead along with your patient.....................

[Mark Halliday]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Well yes, but you'd have to be seriously brutal with disc brakes to get them to the point of fading. I've seen mine red hot and still working fine.

Agreed. But the do stop being quite so effective when hot enough to melt the hub caps.
Rented Montego somewhere just north of Chez Codprawn back when the RAC Rally was a real one. We had to stop at a pub and let them cool.

[Jono]

Completely unrelated but just had this sent to me....

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by jwalker

As you said, possibly it's driving technique.

Well yes, but you'd have to be seriously brutal with disc brakes to get them to the point of fading. I've seen mine red hot and still working fine. Drums would be a different story and it may be one of the reasons changing down to a lower gear is still recommended for heavy vehicles.

Whilst it is good practice on particularly steep hills, just as a vehicle control measure, the majority of british main roads do not have inclines steep enough to require it.

Your comment about changing an auto manually into a lower gear when approaching a junction and also not manually changing down into too low a gear, indicate that you're not particularly experienced in driving vehicles with auto boxes. In the first case that is entirely unnecessary and in the second case the auto box will not change down into a gear which is too low, even if you move the gear lever to a low position.

I have a hell of a lot of experience with autos - in fact I have probably driven over 500,000 miles in autos. Both onroad and offroad.

I don't ALWAYS use an autobox like a manual - mainly on long steep hills etc although I do change down on roundabouts etc to avoid kickdown which can unsettle the handling. A toyota Supra twinturbo is a classic example of this - if you get unwanted kickdown in the wet you are in trouble.

I have often had brake fade - yes it is far more common with drums but the only vehicle I have with drums is the 110 and that is only at the rear. I have even provoked a Ferrari 360 into brake fade but I was really trying!!!

As to British main roads not needing it I can think of plenty in Wales that do!!!

I had read that you can't put an autobox into too low a gear but I have NEVER tried - I have too much mechanical empathy for that!!!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I have a hell of a lot of experience with autos - in fact I have probably driven over 500,000 miles in autos.......

I don’t know how that is possible when you don’t get up until midday and then spend the rest of your time on here O Great one maybe the power of the farce is very strong with you or perhaps it is virtual driving while in your bedroom Learn us how you do it O great one .

[DM]

Originally Posted by codprawn

in fact I have probably driven over 500,000 miles

Sounds to me like you need lessons. You don't seem to understand the basic principles of defensive driving or that there may be driving techniques of which you are unaware.

Now, don't tell me. You've never had an accident.

DM