Manual vs Automatic Cars

[jellis]

....... lets talk real cars; you wouldn't want this with an auto box would you?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by randski

Bring on the Japs again

http://www.clipdump.com/goLink.php?Id=9297

Awesome slide!!!

I said good 0-60 times!!! On dry tarmac 4wd cars have too much traction - to get the engine operating at peak power you have to slip the clutch like hell to stop the engine bogging down .

[The Garfish]

Originally Posted by codprawn

you have to slip the clutch like hell to stop the engine bogging down

i noe wot yew meen codspawn. mi reeliunt robbin iz zackly de saim.

gArf

[Chopppywaters]

nice drivin

[randski]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Awesome slide!!!

I said good 0-60 times!!! On dry tarmac 4wd cars have too much traction - to get the engine operating at peak power you have to slip the clutch like hell to stop the engine bogging down .

Well I know a 4wd turbo that is quicker than the figures given for a 911 turbo
and it does it regularly without burning out clutches. Must be Jap

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by randski

Well I know a 4wd turbo that is quicker than the figures given for a 911 turbo
and it does it regularly without burning out clutches. Must be Jap

Have you actually tried doing a max acceleration run in it? Of course it will be quick anyway but I am talking about the way you have to drive to get the record breaking run!!!

And if you want to see a REALLY quick car look at the Ultima - it holds the world 0 - 100 - 0 record. No traction control - RWD - no ABS - no turbo - just raw grunt. And it's beaten the Mclaren F1.....

http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/record.html

Just watch the videos and notice how little drama there is. Barely any wheel spin and it doesn't even look that dramatic - except for the flames coming out at the end!!!

[randski]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Have you actually tried doing a max acceleration run in it?

Yes I was at Bruntingthorpe a few weeks ago, and i'm talking about a 4 door saloon car now if he wants to compete on a real dirt track!

Great vid tho.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by jellis

....... lets talk real cars; you wouldn't want this with an auto box would you?

Yup. Why not?


Actually, I wouldn't want it anyway.

[osprey__viper]

Interesting read this thread.

Lorries dont use the retarder or exhaust brake in wet or icy conditions, not if you dont want the trailer taking the lead As demonstrated by a couple of our drivers. The gaffer cant afford to keep re-cabbing Scania toplines to often.

Advanced driving/riding, easy Information, Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration or it was when I was teaching it.

Left foot braking, never used it. All my rally cars were rwd and I had enough on keeping em on the bloody road, with out worrying what me left foot was doing Hence the term 'cars'.

Bikes, the faster the better, but since I bought me rib I am not allowed to have one anymore. Something about too many toy's!!!!! And to cap it all me Vectra SRI is going to be replaced by a TD5 disco.

Apart from that an excellent read. After living in a truck all week its threads like this that give me that welcome home feeling

Time for me pipe and slipper's

Martin-Getting old very disgracefully!!!!!!!!!

[randski]

Originally Posted by osprey__viper

After living in a truck all week its threads like this that give me that welcome home feeling

Spent many years living in a cab, I know that feeling, still miss it a bit though.

[DM]

Originally Posted by osprey__viper

Information, Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration

That's the Roadcraft system only we used the word 'hazard' for 'information'.

The system used by the Codprawn School of Motoring is.......

Hazard, gear, position, gear, speed, gear, acceleration, gear, gear,gear, big braking event, visit to the garage for a new gearbox, taxi home.

DM

[donutsina911]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Excuse me - "this crap from codders" - I seemed about the ONLY one sticking up for manuals - nearly everyone else said they were a waste of time!!!

Yes a manual is faster than an auto - no contest BUT as I said - when the mags or manufacturers post their 0-60 times they have to seriosuly abuse the cars to do it.

I have often read - and also have experience of - people in many cars - INCLUDING 911s - wrecking clutches after maybe only 2 or 3 attempts to get fast times. the standard technique is to bring the revs up to about 5,000 and then let go!!!

An automatic will take 0-60 runs all day long(conventional auto) - a manual most certainly will NOT!!!

The hardest cars to get good times out of are 4wd turbos like an Imprezza - to keep the engine in the max powerband you have to slip the clutch as there is too much traction to spin the wheels.

Without abusing a car day in day out an automatic IS quicker for most drivers - it only takes a fraction of a delay changing up etc for the auto to have won.

Five lines of crap.

1. The 911 takes agressive 0-60 runs every day, all day without harming the clutch and getting to manufacturer's claimed performance doesnt mean abusing the car whatsoever. 14,000 hard miles and nowhere near replacing mine.

2. As for the standard technique being to rev to 5,000 and then "let go" - even more crap. Do that in a 911 and you'll end up moving nowhere and treating yourself to a new set of michelins. Your experience is clearly in a different car or a figment of your imagination.

3. As per point 1.

4. 911 turbo is 4wd and it's easy to get decent traction off the line. Just dont rev to 5,000 and let go as per point 2.

5. As per point 1 - you dont need to abuse a car to notice the benefits of a manual over auto in a performance car. As per any comparison, driver error and / or delay in responses will mean a reduction in progress irrespective of gearbox.

[donutsina911]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Have you actually tried doing a max acceleration run in it? Of course it will be quick anyway but I am talking about the way you have to drive to get the record breaking run!!!

And if you want to see a REALLY quick car look at the Ultima - it holds the world 0 - 100 - 0 record. No traction control - RWD - no ABS - no turbo - just raw grunt. And it's beaten the Mclaren F1.....

http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/record.html

Just watch the videos and notice how little drama there is. Barely any wheel spin and it doesn't even look that dramatic - except for the flames coming out at the end!!!

funny old thing it uses a porsche g50 set up

[randski]

[
Car: Evo6 TME, Autronic, Omega Pistons, Arrows Rods, Cusco Suspension, AP Brakes



The MLR were recently invited to Norris Designs for an exclusive preview of their new demo car. There will be a full write up including an in-depth interview with Simon Norris in the next edition of Wastegate Chatter out on 1st October, but here's a brief rundown of the car and some pictures as the final build nears completion.

Exactly what the new Norris Designs demo car is has been the subject of much speculation and Simon's kept it a closely guarded secret whilst creating what is the most unique Evo ever seen.

Believing that the only way Evo performance can take a big step forward is with drastic weight loss, Norris Designs have built an Evo that should weigh in at just 1080kg. With a power to weight ratio of nearly 800bhp per ton it's almost 300bhp per ton more powerful than the old Norris Design Evo 7 demo car!!

To build an Evo this light has meant the car has undergone some major weight loss and incredible engineering, including a substantial amount of the bodyshell being removed to make the car shorter and lower. In fact it is 10inches shorter and 3inches lower than a standard Evo 9 shell. With the shell customised this much, the rear doors have been removed creating the world's first Short Wheelbase 2-Door Evo....

ND Evo 9 SWB - Basic Spec List:

Power
841Hp & 635LbFt (Klotz 118 Race Fuel)
Target weight 1080Kg (Dry)
Target top speed: 215 Mph+
Target ¼ mile: Sub 9 seconds

Engine, Gearbox, ECU & Brakes
ND 2.3 litre stoker
Garrett GT42R roller bearing turbo
ND 4” WRC style custom exhaust system with side exit
Motec M800 Pro ECU
Holinger dog engagement straight cut gearkit
Ikeya sequential shifter with digital gear indicator
Brembo 8 pot metal matrix calipers front & rear

Body
Acid dipped custom 2 door short wheelbase low roof Evolution 9 shell
Custom T45 full weld in load bearing roll cage
Custom air jack tyre changing system

Interior/Exterior
Carbon everywhere!





[/size][/font]

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by donutsina911

funny old thing it uses a porsche g50 set up

That is the budget option - a hewland is the preffered choice!!!

[donutsina911]

impressive feat of engineering, but.....like most japanese saloons of that ilk, would you ever want to be seen in one?! ruf rt12 porsche is probably quicker and looks like a proper sports car...personal preference I guess

[donutsina911]

Originally Posted by codprawn

That is the budget option - a hewland is the preffered choice!!!

and?

[randski]

Originally Posted by donutsina911

impressive feat of engineering, but.....like most japanese saloons of that ilk, would you ever want to be seen in one?! ruf rt12 porsche is probably quicker and looks like a proper sports car...personal preference I guess

Big fan of German cars..... but not of sport cars thats why the jap 4wd do it for me as you said personal preference

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by donutsina911

Five lines of crap.

1. The 911 takes agressive 0-60 runs every day, all day without harming the clutch and getting to manufacturer's claimed performance doesnt mean abusing the car whatsoever. 14,000 hard miles and nowhere near replacing mine.

2. As for the standard technique being to rev to 5,000 and then "let go" - even more crap. Do that in a 911 and you'll end up moving nowhere and treating yourself to a new set of michelins. Your experience is clearly in a different car or a figment of your imagination.

3. As per point 1.

4. 911 turbo is 4wd and it's easy to get decent traction off the line. Just dont rev to 5,000 and let go as per point 2.

5. As per point 1 - you dont need to abuse a car to notice the benefits of a manual over auto in a performance car. As per any comparison, driver error and / or delay in responses will mean a reduction in progress irrespective of gearbox.

I am on about the sort of driving they use in tests etc to get the quickest 0-60mph times - you would NEVER drive a car like that day in day out - hence my comments about an auto can be quicker in the real world!!!

Competition and testing put stresses on cars that most people never will. The Stig managed to destroy TWO BMW M5 diffs on the track a few months ago - yes 2 cars and 2 knackered diffs!!!

I was present when 2 911s destroyed their clutches trying for record 0-60 times. And there were plenty of other cars doing exactly the same.

Maybe the NEW 911 turbo is 4wd - they never used to be - as to spinning the wheels like that at 5000rpm that is my whole point - too few revs and the engine will bog down - too many and you get excessive wheelspin or a stall - the only way with a 4wd turbo to get MAX acceleration is to slip the clutch to keep the boost up.

I don't think you quite grasp the difference between driving quickly and going for the last fraction whilst testing!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by donutsina911

and?

well why mention it in the first place then - I could have just as easily answered "and" to your comment!!!