More Ebay Scamming, why I no longer sell on Ebay

[craig_c]

I sold a laptop on ebay on the 27th March for £820. A second hand gaming laptop that I was using while mine was being repaired. Yes I am a complete nerd but I needed a laptop for a month.

A few days after receiving it the buyer points out I incorrectly listed the hard drive size. Its 512gb not the 1TB I had listed. We settle on a partial refund of £60 so he can go buy the bigger size and I consider everything rosie.

I have my cash from my temporary laptop, the buyer has the laptop and ebay have £83 of fees

Fast forward to the 7th of May. The buyer once again contacts me.

"This laptop is stolen" He Cries,

"Dell want it back, give me my money back"

I dutifully call Dell, I've read here about these stolen boats and outboards scams. Knowing that these things go on I had taken a photo of the serial number and other details not on the listing to protect myself.

Dell tell me "this laptop is not stolen, that is a matter for the police. Yes the person has called but we have not requested it to be returned, it's his property"

I speak to the buyer enquiring why he was calling dell. Apparently the touch screen doesn't work.

"its not a touch screen laptop mate, its a Dell XPS with the HD infinity screen" I respond

He ignores this and blurts back, "its not charging and the screen has lost colour on the bottom left corner"

All of this is in email so you know....

Also here is the ebay ad. Screen looks fine to me..... It charged fine, worked perfectly and was sent in a £10 laptop postage box from AMAZON



7 days later again I have an email from paypal, your account is in negative balance. I look it up and there it is, a negative balance of £775. At first I ignored it waiting the details of the case, however pretty soon they start calling me threatening me with the debt collectors. Despite me phoning them everyday for a week, speaking to all departments, supervisors, managers and the dalai llama telling them all the situation. YOU MUST PAY or we may call a debt collection agency.

Whats happened is that the buyer has opened a case with paypal, but screamed wolf to his bank or credit card to seek compensation. I have phoned paypal every week for the last 2 months however all they are saying is "we are awaiting a decision from the buyers bank"

Hang on, how is this other persons bank making the decisions here? Aren't you the people I am dealing with? You have taken the money from me....

No amount of screaming, complaints, emails, telephone calls and investigative work is helping in this matter. No matter how much evidence you have, photos, details, timescales, emails, correspondence and expert opinions you are at the mercy of a ruthless global web company.

Btw, ebay states 30 days for returns and even if you put returns not accepted you can claim up to 180 days on paypal. That's great if your a buyer, not so much for a seller. It basically means people can rape you and keep the goods you sold in good faith.

I am all for second hand sales, Buyer beware. Use your head caveat emptor and all that but when your 800 quid in the red and the hassle doesn't last minutes, hours, even days this has been months its really not worth doing it on ebay!

I'd also like to point out that ebay charges you a percentage on postage and packaging now also, so no matter how many free listings or deals they do they will still take money.



Paypal and Ebay should combine and be called Dickturpin.com. Everybody in this case is quids in apart from me.

Ebay have had my £83 of fees until today as the middle man
Paypal have the money I had to put back into the paypal account
and the poor unfortunate buyer has a claim with his bank and a laptop

I wish I could laugh about this, but its the nail in the coffin for my ebay selling. Scumtree doesn't threaten you with debt collectors

[xpertski]

Sorry to hear of your experience!

I thought I almost had a scan buyer recently. Sold a used propeller, sent recorded via Hermes, well packed and took photos of package before posting. Hermes confirmed delivery and it had been signed for. Buyer then says they haven’t received it and opens an eBay case, I send the photos and recorded delivery details and that they had signed for it. Buyer responds that they will check .... lo and behold a few weeks later case is closed. I felt very dubious about the buyer, why didn’t they check before opening the case that they had the package in the first place...... hmmmm

[Fenlander]

Craig that is an absolute nightmare and you obviously have a buyer with no morals and experience working the system.

All I can say with my 14+yrs on Ebay is that the percentage of problem deals are very small overall.

I just looked and over that period my total sales amount to £60,800.46.

I have had a guy damage a £120 record deck which I had to refund and throw away. A guy twisted my arm to a £20 part refund on a £60 item because of a missing feature I never knew it had... one that was crucial to him yet he never asked about. And a lady who claimed a £50 antique item had missing parts (it didn't) and refused my offer of a full refund yet gave me my only negative.

Insignificant in the overall sales total.

I am wary of computer and phone buyers though, I will put a hammer through a £60 phone rather than sell to the usual idiot phone buyers on Ebay.

[Tim M]

This is a massive problem on eBay. I’ve racked up over 1000 sales over maybe 15 years, have now given up selling on there for exactly this reason. The last straw for me was an Amp I sold which came off a yacht I was working on. Virtually brand new unit, cost over €2000, sold for £300. There was a tiny cosmetic dent in the casing which was described in the listing. Send it off by DPD with more bubble wrap than you can imagine. Guy complains there is a dent - usual scenario of eBay getting involved and blocking the funds in my Paypal account. In the end I gave up and the money was refunded, put it down to my last bad eBay experience.

I now sell all my surplus used gear on Facebook marketplace (and Ribnet!)

[Pecheur Anglais]

Sorry to hear you had such a nightmare. Having bought hundreds of things from stainless steel R clips to a Porsche 911 on ebay and sold hundreds of things too, my experience is 99% successful with trustworth buyers and sellers but I agree re. caveat emptor. Read the descriptions carefully, list accurately and in detail and read feedback when buying and about buyers. There are other precautions such as analysing bid patterns for spurious up bidding.
I think ebay try to police the site, but not always with a fair outcome.
My biggest gripe is the selling charges, especially making a margin on postage costs. I have been drifting towards gumtree (owned by ebay) and facebook for selling, as they are both free!

[Fenlander]

I guess it comes down to picking the marketplace that suits you best. A lot of the things I have sold benefit from a national... and sometimes international... audience which helps the price to such a degree the fees are worth it.

Ebay 10% fees are competitive besides other professional outlets such as auction houses where they take 20% from the seller… and more importantly 20% from the buyer which effectively cuts down what the buyer is willing to pay you.

[Frar]

Interesting and shocking.

Am I hopelessly naive that the buyer should have returned the items so then you're out of pocket for eBay fees and postage but still have the goods?

Genuinely interested as an occasional seller.

[Brian]

I dont know so much about scamming, but I do find fees are excessive!
I sold my Phantom drone on ebay for an advertised £255.
I received £246.13 via Paypal, OK, not so bad.
Then I received my selling invoice from ebay for £34.49
So altogether my £255 drone was finally sold for £209.64 with all charges amounting to £45.36. Oh, and I paid for courier delivery as well, which is my choice I agree(!) for another £14.00
So all in all, I netted £185.64

I shall use ebay sparingly in future.

[craig_c]

Originally Posted by Frar

Interesting and shocking.

Am I hopelessly naive that the buyer should have returned the items so then you're out of pocket for eBay fees and postage but still have the goods?

Genuinely interested as an occasional seller.

Yes, however paypal states clearly that the item should be returned in original condition. In this case that would mean perfect working order.

A broken screen, charger not working and 6 weeks later is very very suspect to me.

Ebay fees can be claimed back, postage won't be

[Dankoozy]

I don't sell much on ebay but have had fierce bother with people claiming things didn't work or didn't arrive. Now the things that didn't work were tested before being sent out so already very suspect. The only way around it for me in one case was to give him a full refund based on his assertion or to pay for return postage from germany to Ireland (about 1/2 the value of the item).



Generally I notice for buying on ebay 1 in 100 or so transactions give trouble. Selling it's less than 1 in 10. I was selling new smartphones for a short time and most of them passed without incident except for one utter headcase who insisted I pay for return postage from Germany (again) because there was a slight dent in the cardboard box the phone was in.

[Tim M]

I broke my ebay selling embargo a couple of weeks ago to sell a Musto drysuit. Cost new currently £1400, sold it for £150 as "well used". Still in good condition - fully checked over prior to sending. Two weeks later chap claims one of the wrist seals has split and wants a £25 refund or he'll return the whole thing. Seals sell for £5.99 for a pair on ebay. As per the above they have you over a barrel

[Orwell boy]

I too have fell out of love with ebay and reluctant to put certain types of things on that have a habit of attracting the "wrong sort of buyer " , i sold a brand new unused beach fishong umbrella with the skirts and had to refund the person because he told me it sat on a point of the hex shape and not a flat side ,when tilted on the shaft ,that was the last straw for me ,i gave him a total refund and told him to put it into the local charity shop ,(i bet he did that ! )
I have sort of tried gumtree ,but that is a nightmare ,i put my 1300kg trailer on there and had a punter asking me for my paypal account details ,within 1 hour of listing ,he sggested i could ship it ! .
i can,t believe i am saying this but i may try a couple of ads in the local paper

[Tim M]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

I too have fell out of love with ebay and reluctant to put certain types of things on that have a habit of attracting the "wrong sort of buyer " , i sold a brand new unused beach fishong umbrella with the skirts and had to refund the person because he told me it sat on a point of the hex shape and not a flat side ,when tilted on the shaft ,that was the last straw for me ,i gave him a total refund and told him to put it into the local charity shop ,(i bet he did that ! )
I have sort of tried gumtree ,but that is a nightmare ,i put my 1300kg trailer on there and had a punter asking me for my paypal account details ,within 1 hour of listing ,he sggested i could ship it ! .
i can,t believe i am saying this but i may try a couple of ads in the local paper

Facebook Marketplace is very easy to use. I've sold loads of stuff on there over the last few months and its free!

[Nos4r2]

For an £800+ laptop I'd be outside his house demanding its return if someone pulled that stunt on me.

[craig_c]

After 6 months since the original transaction PAYPAL have jumped ship and are claiming this is in their terms and conditions and now nothing to do with them.

They have stopped replying to my emails of concerns and complaints and have referred me to trading standards.

Trading standards have been very helpful and given me clear instructions on what do to do in this case but I fear the money will still be lost.

Trouble with turning up at peoples doors these days is they will just say you threatened them and call the cops landing you in trouble. It's your word against theirs.

I will tow the line and however much I would like to turn up at his door that will only cause problems later on.

Ebay have lost my business. Amazon is much easier to deal with and if I really must buy something on ebay, I am no longer using paypal. Its a pain but they deserve to lose every penny of my business.

[craig_c]

my advice at this point to anybody in the same position, is to request the item back immediately no matter what they say is wrong with it.

Paypal will riggle out of any dispute and usually find it in the "poor hard done to buyers" favour.

Request the item back straight away, don't dispute it like I did no matter what they say.

I am still without the cash or laptop after 6 months

[69cmw]

Buy something you need using PayPal, use the function that lets them take the money after 14 days rather than straight away. Cancel the account PayPal is linked too as soon as you have the item ....... Then your even [emoji6]

[Fenlander]

Why does it say that the buyers financial institution has decided the case... who are they... credit card?

[craig_c]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Why does it say that the buyers financial institution has decided the case... who are they... credit card?

Yes indeed,

It seems the credit card company will request the money from Paypal

Who in turn will place your account in a negative balance regardless of who is at fault

The credit card company will always side with their customer, and paypal just have the job of threatening you with debt collectors as what happened in my case...

[Fenlander]

Ahh ok I can sort of see why Paypal had to do that as they were merely the conduit for those funds. I don't mean it's fair but it somewhat takes the decision making out of their hands.

I guess you never had the chance to argue the case with the credit card co?

It's interesting because I'm not sure if I'd know if I'd been paid for an item with Paypal funded by a credit card.... did it say anywhere in your Paypal account that it was cc funded?

I've used my credit card for more expensive items purchased from major retail outlets listing on Ebay to add to my protection but had never really thought of how it would work if one was used to buy from me and then an unfair refund was claimed.

Edit: Now my head's spinning as I was interested to look into this and it seems Martin Lewis says that when a credit card is used to fund a Paypal purchase the section 75 protection is lost??

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cr...Pal-Section75/