Motorway Madness

[codprawn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/6927333.stm

I wonder if anyone was caught up in this?

It is of course tragic that the lorry driver died BUT it is about time the Police stopped treating ACCIDENTS as a crime scene. The accident happened at 2.15AM - they didn't get the traffic flowing again until lunchtime - it wasn't properly cleared until 7pm!!!

The chaos must have been unbelieveable - not onlt the whole M4 shut for 4 junctions but all the other roads clogged as well.

I think the Police have got their priorities very wrong these days. The knock on effect from incidents like this can cause far more loss of life than the original accident. Abumlances can't get to hospitals - medical staff can't get to work - fire engines are delayed in response to calls - the list is endless.

I wonder what happens in other countries such as the USA for example - is the priority to get the traffic flowing again or not?

[Nos4r2]

Every time I see something like this I hope it's not someone I know.

[Richard B]

The trouble with what you are saying is that you don't know the full circumstances of the "accident". You would have a very different viewpoint if you were a member of the deceased man's family and a vital piece of evidence was overlooked and later compromised the investigation of the facts. Objects are sometimes thrown off bridges in the small hours and this could be a murder investigation. And negligence is criminal, not an accident.

If you're really concerned about traffic delays, get one of these, they are one of the most under-rated products I've ever come across: http://www.trafficmaster.co.uk/page....afficmaster-yq They provide real time traffic congetion information... same info as goes into Vauxhall Trafficnet amongst others.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Richard B

The trouble with what you are saying is that you don't know the full circumstances of the "accident". You would have a very different viewpoint if you were a member of the deceased man's family and a vital piece of evidence was overlooked and later compromised the investigation of the facts. Objects are sometimes thrown off bridges in the small hours and this could be a murder investigation. And negligence is criminal, not an accident.
.

There have been loads of similar incidents. The Police must balance the requirements of doing their job with the disruption and other loss of life that does occur.

A few years ago I was stuck in a massive tailback at Windsor. It turns out an old man had driven the wrong way out of the Membury services and hit a BMW head on. It was obvious what happened and there were plenty of witnesses.

It took me 10 hrs to get home. The havoc it caused led to other loss of life. Accidents on other roads that couldn't cope and other related deaths. They estimated as many as 8 other people had died as a direct result of the accident!!!

Of course I feel for the familiy concerned but I am sure they would be horrified to learn that other people had also died as a result.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by codprawn

It was obvious what happened and there were plenty of witnesses.

In that case just shovel the old codger into the ditch and get on, eh?

I understand your frustration, and I'm just another member of the public involved in these regretable incidents from time to time, but I do think you may be underestimating the problems that the emergency services have to deal with. Diagnosing a death at the roadside is a major task, and then the rescue of survivors must take priority over traffic situations.

You say that 8 other deaths occured as a result of the incident that caused the major tailback, but that's heresay until proven. And the type of tailback you're describing is commonplace around here - the roads are at full capacity all the time and there's no space for more. Think yourself lucky you live in Swansea!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Richard B

In that case just shovel the old codger into the ditch and get on, eh?

I understand your frustration, and I'm just another member of the public involved in these regretable incidents from time to time, but I do think you may be underestimating the problems that the emergency services have to deal with. Diagnosing a death at the roadside is a major task, and then the rescue of survivors must take priority over traffic situations.

You say that 8 other deaths occured as a result of the incident that caused the major tailback, but that's heresay until proven. And the type of tailback you're describing is commonplace around here - the roads are at full capacity all the time and there's no space for more. Think yourself lucky you live in Swansea!

Of course not - I would have thought the people would be rushed to hospital ASAP - it is the full on Forensics that could be done on the wreckage afterwards I am on about!!!

You may think Swansea is some quiet little backwater but it's not - actually Britain's 22nd city and a lot bigger than Reading. The traffic here is some of the worst I have seen anywhere. Also the stretch of M4 from Swansea to the Severn bridge is probably the busiest stretch of 2 lane motorway in the UK. Just noticed you live in Reading - the M4 flows far better there than it does this end (I used to work in Bracknell for a while commuting every day) There are also way too many junctions in Wales - none are more than a few miles apart.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Just noticed you live in Reading....

Just? After nearly three and a half years?

Funnily enough I used to do most of my work in South Wales.... typicaly at Alcoa in Swansea, ITT somewhere in the middle of nowhere, Lucas in Cwmbran and Ford in Bridgend and Swansea!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Just? After nearly three and a half years?

Funnily enough I used to do most of my work in South Wales.... typicaly at Alcoa in Swansea, ITT somewhere in the middle of nowhere, Lucas in Cwmbran and Ford in Bridgend and Swansea!

Well since then our glorius government has seen fit to close off roads - make main roads narrower - introduce 4 sets of traffic lights on the main road into the city from the M4 - and now they are creating absolute and total havoc by introducing a traffic scam for the big "bendy buses" and park and ride. This is the park and ride service that carries about 2 passengers at a time!!!

Funnily enough I was talking to a Yank the other day who has come over to strip the Alcoa plant down and send it to Poland.

[pathalla]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Well since then our glorius government has seen fit to close off roads - make main roads narrower - introduce 4 sets of traffic lights on the main road into the city from the M4 - and now they are creating absolute and total havoc by introducing a traffic scam for the big "bendy buses" and park and ride. This is the park and ride service that carries about 2 passengers at a time!!!

Funnily enough I was talking to a Yank the other day who has come over to strip the Alcoa plant down and send it to Poland.

Us Yanks...always stripping something....

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by pathalla

Us Yanks...always stripping something....

You wish...

[codprawn]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html

Seems like I wasn't the only one to wonder why it took so long!!!

Brynle Williams, the Conservative AM for North Wales, who led the national fuel protests in 2000, said, “It is time the police got their act together. We are seeing this sort of thing every time there is an accident.

“Of course it is a great tragedy when someone loses a life but it does not take 11 hours to gather evidence and take photographs.

“This sort of incident warrants strong comment because otherwise nothing will get done about it. We need to be very critical of the time police are taking to handle accidents all over Wales.

“They seem to take joy in inconveniencing the public.

“If the police cannot conduct themselves in a better way than this then we should be looking for better police officers. The Welsh police force is adequately serviced so there can be no excuse.”

Former traffic police officer Adrian Llewelyn Jones was stranded for more than three hours en route to a meeting in Swindon.

“I spoke to Gwent Police and they told me the delay was due to them following strict protocol,” he said. “If that is the case then serious questions have to be asked about how police deal with these sort of things.

[oxboy]

Well it looks like it is happening again.

M25 closed near the Gatwick turn, accident at approx 07.30 this morning, 2 lorries and a car, no reports on any injuries yet.

Tailbacks into Kent, anyone going on holiday from Gatwick today is stuffed.

Why is the road still blocked? the accident was 6 hours ago and no sign of the road reopening yet.

Surely it doesn't take long to take a few pictures, load the vehicles onto trucks, load the people into ambulances and get them out of there, sweep up the mess, (I see plenty of highway agency 4 x 4's driving around the motorway, it appears the more people employed on the motorway the longer it takes to get anything done), and get the road open again.

[codprawn]

Apparently it's government policy - they HAVE to treat each accident as a crime scene - or so the Police SAY!!! Why people accept such crap is beyond me - if more people made a fuss they wouldn't get away with it.

[tcwozere]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Brynle Williams, the Conservative AM for North Wales, who led the national fuel protests in 2000, said, “blah, blah, blah...”

He wasn't that concerned when his fuel protest caused abject misery to millions, caused small businesses to fold. And gawd knows how many ambulances were prevented from reaching dying people..

Plan ahead, 75,000 miles a year for the last ten years, and I've never spent more than 30-45 minutes in a hold up.. I've never got anyone to the airport late either..

I also accept the amount of time needed by the Police to close the Motorway.. Sometimes its to scrape up bits of people from the carriageway.. (Rumour has it the overnight closure of the M3 southbound near Winchester last year was to enable the Police to find the head of a motorcyclist that had gone missing after a crash..) Cos I am fairly sure Joe Public would be the first to sue if their little Johnny saw part of a body smiling at him from the hard shoulder.. And sometimes the carriageway needs completely resurfacing, (EG, the M3, also southbound a few years ago when a lorry carrying gas canisters went bang..)

[Biggles]

Why don't they detour people around a traffic accident.

When I was involved in moving lots of vehicles we always had detours ready to put in place as soon as a road got closed.

Those useless jockeys in the Black and Yellow Range Rovers should be doing that instead of stopping next to every vehicle that has broken down on the hard shoulder and waiting for it to be recovered. What an absolute waste of money those people are.
They look very similar to Policeman, have loads of Gucci kit and seem to do very little. I for one would rather see real Police out and about.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by tcwozere

He wasn't that concerned when his fuel protest caused abject misery to millions, caused small businesses to fold. And gawd knows how many ambulances were prevented from reaching dying people..

Plan ahead, 75,000 miles a year for the last ten years, and I've never spent more than 30-45 minutes in a hold up.. I've never got anyone to the airport late either..

I also accept the amount of time needed by the Police to close the Motorway.. Sometimes its to scrape up bits of people from the carriageway.. (Rumour has it the overnight closure of the M3 southbound near Winchester last year was to enable the Police to find the head of a motorcyclist that had gone missing after a crash..) Cos I am fairly sure Joe Public would be the first to sue if their little Johnny saw part of a body smiling at him from the hard shoulder.. And sometimes the carriageway needs completely resurfacing, (EG, the M3, also southbound a few years ago when a lorry carrying gas canisters went bang..)

Well I agreed with the fuel protest 110% - I can assure you the amount of taxes they charge us and the way they meddle with our roads bring a lot more misery. The fuel protests actually succeeded in stopping the fuel tax escalator in it's tracks - at least for quite a while. Someone just had to stand up to them - the amount of tax we pay on our fuel is OBSCENE and it's the poorer people and the economey that suffers the most.

Ambulances were NOT stopped from getting to hospitals - in fact they had a clear run as their fuel supplies were protected.

I find it incredible you have never been stuck in a jam for more than 40 mins - either very lucky or you don't have to travel long distances at peak times. I use tomtom and autoroute with gps on a laptop and have very good knowledge of the routes I traveled - at one stage 2,000 miles a week!!!

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Ambulances were NOT stopped from getting to hospitals - in fact they had a clear run as their fuel supplies were protected.

Emergency services were able to refuel private vehicles during the night.

And locally it was only Unleaded thet ran out or had the big queues. Diesel was fine once you could actually get in a garage.

[Chrisch]

Originally Posted by codprawn

....the amount of tax we pay on our fuel is OBSCENE and it's the poorer people and the economey that suffers the most.
...

So the environment and the future of our planet and our species is of no interest to you then? Fuel is way too cheap and should be taxed far more heavily than it already is.

Chris

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Chrisch

So the environment and the future of our planet and our species is of no interest to you then? Fuel is way too cheap and should be taxed far more heavily than it already is.

Chris

Way too cheap where exactly? Fuel in Great Britain represents a major chunk of most families spending power!!!

Are you telling me I should pay more for fuel whilst the Chinese build an extra 2 coal fired power stations a week?

I live in a house where my ONLY form of heating is a woodburner and I use salvaged wood. What form of heating do you use?

If Great Britain vanished overnight there would only be a saving of about 0.7% in CO2 - why should we pay more when the biggest polluters don't care? Or do you think we should all suffer for token gestures???

[Chrisch]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Way too cheap where exactly? Fuel in Great Britain represents a major chunk of most families spending power!!!

Fuel represents the main expenditure of everyone on the planet. It is too cheap - so much so we do not value it or care about it.

Originally Posted by codprawn

Are you telling me I should pay more for fuel whilst the Chinese build an extra 2 coal fired power stations a week?

Yes.

Originally Posted by codprawn

I live in a house where my ONLY form of heating is a woodburner and I use salvaged wood. What form of heating do you use?

Our flat is gas heated. It is too cheap we should pay more. I doubt anyone else agrees with me.

Originally Posted by codprawn

If Great Britain vanished overnight there would only be a saving of about 0.7% in CO2 - why should we pay more when the biggest polluters don't care? Or do you think we should all suffer for token gestures???

Everyone should pay more. If the UK vanished overnight it would make a difference. Yes everyone should make a difference. If you think it is a token gesture this is simply because so many other people are equally selfish and ignorant.

But hey that's the brits... moan moan moan moan moan....

In a capitalist world the way to limit resources is through economics. In order to reduce planet-killing emissions that means putting up the cost of fuel. Tough. Live with it. Shut up whinging. My boat is no cheaper than yours to run.

Chris