Putting the World to rights

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Solent Ranger

today when refulling the school boat at Port Hamble marina fuel berth - last week petrol was £1.12/litre. Today? £1.21 . Diesel was £0.53/litre.

Thank Bush and Blair - in 2002 oil was about $14 a barrel - it had really slumped.

Of course us in the UK didn't notice oil was so cheap because of our disgusting tax rates!!!

The Yanks are really feeling the pinch now - they use far more oil than we do.

What exactly have Bush and Blair achieved???? The Russians must be loving it - they are rapidly turning back into a superpower - they are making a fortune out of oil now!!!

[dctucker]

You can also thank rapidly rising demand for petroleum in China, and India. The devastation of Hurricane Katrina has had a huge impact as well. As a result, all Gulf of Mexico production is offline. Also 10% of all US refining capacity is offline. Pipelines serving the southeastern US are running at 25%-50% of capacity. You're complaining of a 15% increase, while in the Northeast US I'm experiencing a 125% increase in fuel cost. From ~$1.60/US gal to ~$3.60/gal today. Probably still less than your cost, but we're taking the bigger economic hit. The global economic impact of this hurricane concerns me.

Frankly though, who cares. The human suffering and devastation from that storm are mindboggling. An ENTIRE CITY is homeless and evacuated. Sixty square miles of New Orleans is under water. Think about a decent sized city in your country being uninhabitable. And that's not all of it. The swath of destruction is enourmous. It will continue to get worse before it gets better. There are virtually no homes or employers left for hundreds of miles. Relief began to arrive in a meaningful way today, thank god. The death toll will be in the thousands. The US Coast Guard has rescued nearly 10,000 people from their homes, mostly by air, some by boat. There are thousands more still trapped. The news is showing people walking barefoot down the empty highways to get out, talking about walking 5-6 days to get to family.

A sailing email list I subscribe to requested boats from manufacturers today. I contemplated loading up the Searider with as much fuel, water and food as it could carry, hitching it to the car and driving the 1000 miles to New Orleans. Just getting there and back would cost over $1000. I just can't leave my wife, expecting our second child in about 7 weeks, and my 5 year old daughter. We're considering offering up our 2 spare bedrooms (one intended to be the nursery) to a homeless displaced family. If we can make a connection through sailing, ribbing, church or work, and can arrange transportation, we will likely do it.

Sri Lanka offered aid today. Amazing.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by dctucker

A sailing email list I subscribe to requested boats from manufacturers today. I contemplated loading up the Searider with as much fuel, water and food as it could carry, hitching it to the car and driving the 1000 miles to New Orleans. Just getting there and back would cost over $1000. I just can't leave my wife, expecting our second child in about 7 weeks, and my 5 year old daughter. We're considering offering up our 2 spare bedrooms (one intended to be the nursery) to a homeless displaced family. If we can make a connection through sailing, ribbing, church or work, and can arrange transportation, we will likely do it.

Sri Lanka offered aid today. Amazing.

Good for you BUT it is total anarchy down there at the moment - you would end up having your boat pulled from under you!!!

It is suprising how slowly a big country like the USA has been in trying to sort this out - a bloke I know who works for a disaster relief agency said he saw aid getting to people quicker in Thailand than it is in New Orleans - it doesn't help that loads of the national guard are out in Iraq!!!

My thoughts are definitely with the poor people suffering at the moment!!!

[dctucker]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Good for you BUT it is total anarchy down there at the moment - you would end up having your boat pulled from under you!!!

It is suprising how slowly a big country like the USA has been in trying to sort this out - a bloke I know who works for a disaster relief agency said he saw aid getting to people quicker in Thailand than it is in New Orleans - it doesn't help that loads of the national guard are out in Iraq!!!

My thoughts are definitely with the poor people suffering at the moment!!!

The anarchy was what really put the idea out of my head. Having the rib pulled out from under me would be one thing. Getting shot at and not returning to my family is entirely another...

All sorts of interesting figures are coming to light. Well under 20% (40% ? it's late, can't recall the right figure) of our reserve troops are actually deployed to the Mid East. Recently many were wondering why we didn't have more boots on the gound there...

Most upsetting is that new and mighty (!) Dept of Homeland Security, which assimilated both FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) and the US Coast Guard, amongst others, could't pull their act together on this. Doesn't speak well of our preparedness for another terrorist attack, never mind a natural disaster. Nor does it bode well for Homeland Security's ability to prevent another major attack.

This very scenario has apparently been on the minds of disaster planners for quite a long time, and this is the response?!?! I'm sure that there was a terror scenario considered involving bombing the levees open, with the same effect for New Orleans.

The Bush adminsitration is a bunch of single minded nincompoops! I'm going to bed before I start a rant on NeoConservatives and the Christian Right (which JK would rightly delete). Suffice it to say, they're no better than Islamic fundamentalists in my book.

[eupa]

The Bush adminsitration is a bunch of single minded nincompoops! I'm going to bed before I start a rant on NeoConservatives and the Christian Right (which JK would rightly delete). Suffice it to say, they're no better than Islamic fundamentalists in my book.

I think in a previous post somebody said" deaths only 10.000" - Even one death is one too many..... I don't think you can blame Bush for this one- even though for once everything seems to be disorganised.
The problem with New Orleans - as everybody knows - is that it's below sea-level and lacks the insfrustructure to cope with major flooding. There was a guy caled Baker - who had come up with a plan some years ago - and it invloved spending billions of $'s over 10 years. He was sacked for dearing to suggest that New Orleans spends such money.

New Orelans was a disaster waiting to happen. While my heart goes out to the people who are suffering from this calamity - I dont think you can attribute balme to any one individual. What is happening now - is that this situation brings out the best and sometimes the worst in people. The media do no good in concentrating on the looting, raping, ect... I am sure knowing the americans - there 's a lot of good people trying to do the right thing..

Jonathan

[dctucker]

I'm not blaming Bush for the storm, obviously. Though there is a strong sentiment that his head-in-the-sand position on greenhouse emissions & global warming is contributing to the severity of such storms. I happen to espouse that belief. Nonetheless, it's the response to the storm and the tragedy that many are truely faulting the Bush adminstration for.

With all the resources we've directed to Homeland Security, one would assume that response to ANY disasterous event, natural or manmade, should be swift and comprehensive. Local politicians, most noteably the mayor of New Orleans, are making much of racism being the basis for the poor response. I don't buy that for a minute. No media or politicians are yet raising the issue of the obvious lack of preparedness by H.S. Perhaps it's too soon. Bush has staked his legacy on protecting us from terrorism. IMHO, this highlights a glaring shortfall in preparedness.

The fact is, in a storm of this magnitude, it is impossible to assure that there is zero loss of life. Sad, but true. But leaving 10's of thousands cut off and suffering is simply poor planning and response by the government. NO ONE should die after the storm has passed. Many have. People literally dying in the streets for lack of water and medical care. That is inexcusable.

There was a comprehensive plan developed, called New Orleans 2050 (?) which whould have addressed the protection of the city from flooding, Dutch style floodgates, improved levees, restoring the natural delta, etc. Estimated cost was $14 billion USD (probably $30M when actually done!). The Dutch are still working on improving their systems 50 years after their last great flood. It wouldn't have been anywhere near ready at this point, but might it have helped? Who knows... Now we're facing a disaster relief cost which will be multiples of that investment. We WILL come together now, and do both.

There ARE plenty of stories of good, people are rising to the challenge.

[codprawn]

Couldn't agree more - after Sept 11th there were supposed to be all sorts of plans in place to deal with major disasters - seems like Bush couldn't organise the proverbial "pi** up in a brewery"!!!!

[gavin]

I am not going to cross the line here and go on about something I am only seeing secondhand on tv, its a terrible waste of innocent peoples lives.My heart goes out to them, and people coming on the forum here thinking about going down to help, is doing more than I am doing


This post began about fuel prices
The USA has 6 percent of Global population
However they burn 25 PERCENT OF GLOBAL OIL

Why does this happen, 5 litre petrol, cars, 8 ltr jeeps, even 14 ltr ones

Fueling two wars as we all know about,

and since the onset of wars , a huge effort to stockpile fuel in the form of Stragetic reserves.

Make no mistake, since Bush has come to power,not only has he refused to sign up to Kyoto, and agreed to drill for oil in Alaskan National Park, and thrown fuel and resources into Afganastain and Iraq

But when I saw him on Tv the other night he spoke for 10 mins, 2 about the disaster, and 8 about oil.
Yes Chinas demand and increased Worldwide demand also fuel the prices,
But no one country has such a thirst for this finite resoursce as the Usa.

Very few people outside the USA drive the literage size engines which are the norm in the US, Imagine how much fuel goes into wars,
Look at the figures I show above, if we all lived like the Americans we would need a further 4 planets of resources, 25 percent of Global consumption, is not only staggering, its immoral.

Now the IEA are releasing European oil to help cover the shortfall in the USA!! 60 million barrells over the next 30 days, so when the 10 percent comes back online in the US after the hurricane, we will pay increased prices for the remainder of time it takes to refill , both European and US reserves .

The Us have a huge responsibility to stop this madness and lets not pull any punches here, everyone else is paying through the nose for oil, as a result mainly of the actions of one country...
its wrong , and we are worse for giving European stragetic reserves,
Its farsical, before the hurricane, no ship other than a US ship could deliver oil within the US, but now its okay to use foreign ships?
post hurricane

[codprawn]

The most stupid thing about Bush is that high oil prices hurt the USA more than anyone - and who pushed up the prices???

USSR failed because it went bankrupt - they are making loads of money out of oil now - wonder what USSR mk2 will be like......

[John Kennett]

OK, enough politics now. There are plenty of other places for this sort of discussion if you're so inclined.

Ta!

John

[gavin]

Jk is politics just plain banned or is it to be posted in Other Stuff

This hopefully was a post on fuel, unfortunatly to get to the root of problems posts might have to dig a little deeper so to speak, fuel is a big part of ribbing and needs to be discussed thats all

[John Kennett]

By all means discuss fuel prices, but I don't see that the political reasons that may or may not affect the price have any relevance to boating.

It's not a matter of principle, I just find it deeply boring. We already have more than enough opinionated ranting as it is!

If you want to debate politics then you could try one or more of these newsgroups:

alt.politics
alt.politics.uk
uk.politics.misc

You can access these via groups.google.com or with a newsreader such as Agent

Alternatively there are many forums dedicated to talking politics, such as:

www.debatepolitics.com
forums.debatenation.com
www.urban75.net/vbulletin/
www.npboards.com

Ta

John

[codprawn]

GOD has spoken...............

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by codprawn

GOD has spoken...............

If you beleive in that... wonder if we are allowed to debate religion

[The Garfish]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

We already have more than enough opinionated ranting as it is

wel torl fing, de besst fing too doo iz bann de borld heddid bastud fromm wuster jonnow, codsporn, richud c yoopa wj eny yannks, eny froggs eny beljies, eny wimmin, enyboddy wot az a bote,[eksept codsporn]

oh an yorrself

longg liv bote madd

gArf

[John Kennett]

John

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by The Garfish

wel torl fing, de besst fing too doo iz bann de borld heddid bastud fromm wuster jonnow, codsporn, richud c yoopa wj eny yannks, eny froggs eny beljies, eny wimmin, enyboddy wot az a bote,[eksept codsporn]

oh an yorrself

longg liv bote madd

gArf

What's this then??? Scotch mist??? Who said I didn't have a boat???

[dctucker]

Well, I drive a 2.0 litre automobile, my wife a 2.3 litre. I reduced my daily commute from 50 miles to 0 six months ago. I'm waiting for a new front fork for my city bike, so I can do more errands that way, rather than by car. I want the offshore wind farms locally, far more than I want an offshore LNG terminal.

My rib will remain ashore and dry this long holiday weekend, due in part to the cost of fuel. Oh, and because my wife is insisting, with 7 weeks to delivery of the next child, that I start cleaning and painting! I really wanted to head offshore in the rib 10-12 miles to where the whales are, that we saw sailing last weekend.

I did go race sailboats today, and will again on Monday. Won't burn more than a couple of 10ths of a litre.

[gavin]

-

[eupa]

Well, I drive a 2.0 litre automobile, my wife a 2.3 litre. I reduced my daily commute from 50 miles to 0 six months ago. I'm waiting for a new front fork for my city bike, so I can do more errands that way, rather than by car. I want the offshore wind farms locally, far more than I want an offshore LNG terminal.

Very brave of you-- but it wont save the world!!!!!!!!

Ok - we will put a 30 meter high turbine in your garden
Go down to a 1 liter LPG Kia Rio.- Probably the worse **************
Ensure that anybody driving a car greater than 1500 cc is severly ostracised
Walk a lot ( has two very positive attributes!)
Set up a local committee to have a better public transport system
Stop the airco
Buy a horse
Get rid of the local Walmart ( everything comes from China- so when buying there, you are incresaing demand for oil in that country
Close Macdos
Throw out the TV
Cut the electricity at 2100 hrs.
Stop the cental heating/ buy more blankets

Why the hell is it taking so long to get new forks for the bike......dont tell me --- i guessed it --- made in PRC

and SELL THE RIB!!!!!!

jonathan