Sea Snake Report-MAIB

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by roycruse

The fact is - there are no such things as accidents - only carelessness and recklessness.

Anything that can be done to reduce the amount of carelessness and recklessness in boating in general is OK by me - and I just hope that sufficient is done to reduce recklessness and carelessness before I personally become the victim of it.

It could just have easily been a family aboard an anchored boat sleeping that they hit and several more people could have died.

TECHNICALLY you may be right - in practice????

So many examples these days of the blame culture.

For example - you nod off at the wheel - suddenly jerk awake and find you have hit a post or barrier - what do you get? A nasty fright and maybe a dent. On the other hand you miss the barrier- go down an embankment - one train is early - another is late - you end up on the track - people are killed - you go to prison.

The actions are exactly the same!!!

Another scenario - you open manhole in your own back garden - you forget and go inside to answer the phone - come out and carry on working. If lady luck is NOT on your side though a 2yr old has wandered off and fallen down the hole and died - do you REALLY deserve to go to prison???

ALWAYS put yourself in the other persons shoes - I think it is often a case of "there but for the grace of God go I"!!!

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by roycruse

..Anything that can be done to reduce the amount of carelessness and recklessness in boating in general is OK by me - and I just hope that sufficient is done to reduce recklessness and carelessness before I personally become the victim of it.

Cool. I've got the solution. Ban all boating. That would work.

[jwalker]

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by codprawn

TECHNICALLY you may be right - in practice????

So many examples these days of the blame culture.

For example - you nod off at the wheel - suddenly jerk awake and find you have hit a post or barrier - what do you get? A nasty fright and maybe a dent. On the other hand you miss the barrier- go down an embankment - one train is early - another is late - you end up on the track - people are killed - you go to prison.

The actions are exactly the same!!!

Another scenario - you open manhole in your own back garden - you forget and go inside to answer the phone - come out and carry on working. If lady luck is NOT on your side though a 2yr old has wandered off and fallen down the hole and died - do you REALLY deserve to go to prison???

ALWAYS put yourself in the other persons shoes - I think it is often a case of "there but for the grace of God go I"!!!

If your driving whilst tiered to the point that you are nodding off at the wheel - you deserve to loose your license - permanently. A one ton lump of metal doing 70mph is a deadly weapon - falling sleep at the wheel is the same as blindfolding yourself and pulling the trigger of a shotgun. This is at best carelessness if caught off guard - but driving whilst you know you are tired is blatantly reckless.

In the case of the 2 yr old - its the guardian who was careless allowing the child to wander onto private property where any number of hazards for a 2yr old could exist.

[thorper]

Instead of splitting hairs about blame culture & the definition of accident, maybe it would be better to think of some possibly new & innovative ways to prevent / discourage incidents such as the one that sparked this thread

It would be nice to think as a (possibly) influential group of boat users, we could come up with some good ideas to prevent heavy handed government regulation in the future!

Ricky

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by roycruse

If your driving whilst tiered to the point that you are nodding off at the wheel - you deserve to loose your license - permanently. A one ton lump of metal doing 70mph is a deadly weapon - falling sleep at the wheel is the same as blindfolding yourself and pulling the trigger of a shotgun. This is at best carelessness if caught off guard - but driving whilst you know you are tired is blatantly reckless.

In the case of the 2 yr old - its the guardian who was careless allowing the child to wander onto private property where any number of hazards for a 2yr old could exist.

Can you TRUTHFULLY say you have never driven whilst tired? What about speeding - letting your attention wander - used a phone -picked your nose etc etc?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by thorper

Instead of splitting hairs about blame culture & the definition of accident, maybe it would be better to think of some possibly new & innovative ways to prevent / discourage incidents such as the one that sparked this thread

It would be nice to think as a (possibly) influential group of boat users, we could come up with some good ideas to prevent heavy handed government regulation in the future!

Ricky

But that's the problem - accidents will always happen. Everyone does something stupid now and again - we usually get away with it though!!!

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by codprawn

But that's the problem - accidents will always happen. Everyone does something stupid now and again - we usually get away with it though!!!

And its attitudes like that (thinking it will never be you that's unlucky and that bad things always happen to someone else that cause carelessness) is the reason that this particular thread even exists - and we are having this discussion at the expense of several dead people.

All anyone can ever do is is be as careful as they can be.

In the case of the sea snake they were foolish and selfish wanting to go out to see some landmark in conditions that were beyond their capabilities. They were careless when they decided to come in on a moonless night at 40 knots. Why did they do it - know one will ever know - probably something as stupid as they were cold and wanted to get back quicker. Which ever way you look at it a string of careless decisions led to their demise.

"Accidents" can nearly always be prevented and its usually a case of insufficient care and attention being paid because of that oh so human attitude - it will never happen to me.

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Can you TRUTHFULLY say you have never driven whilst tired? What about speeding - letting your attention wander - used a phone -picked your nose etc etc?

Your right i have driven without due care and attention on several occasions - I have speed several times.

I now have 9 points on my license and guess what - I don't speed anymore - and I am bloody careful every time I get in the car.

I'm the perfect example of the system that you are raging against working. I have been given a choice - tow the line or don't drive. Without the current motoring laws I no doubt would still be doing handbrake turns in the middle of busy traffic junctions etc like I used to do as a teenager and no doubt would have killed someone before I realised what being responsible actually was.

[codprawn]

Don't speed any more? Are you sure? It is almost impossible to drive a modern car on a good road and NOT speed.

Funninly enough most of the people I know with points on their licence don't speed and have a go at young drivers who drive too fast!!!

The number of "ordinary" people - often older ones - who are doing 40 mph in a 30mph limit is incredible - they then continue at 40mph in a 60mph limit!!!

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Don't speed any more? Are you sure?

Im absolutely sure - too much risk - one more strike and im out - im on the road for 30-40,000 miles a year travelling to do my job if i loose my license it will be catastrophic for me - I always find the 50mph motorway roadworks are the hardest and now a lot of them are 40mph !!! Only way I survive is to kick in the cruise control so that I dont accidentally drift above the speed limit and get stung by a camera...

[jwalker]

Roycruse, on the plus side, that relaxation will do yer heart good. Don't fall asleep though.

[Andy Gee]

Originally Posted by roycruse

Are you trying to say that drink driving laws have not reduced the number of alcohol related deaths on the roads.

I for one know loads of people who would drink and drive if it were legal.

Get real...

The deaths have been cut but the number of offenders has increased,it's certinally not down to an increase in policing, so work it out.
Andy

[Simon B]

Going back to a previous point of falling asleep at the wheel, unless its happened to you, you'll never truly know how fast it is. As sleep researches have found falling asleep with the emphasis on falling is pretty quick. Add drink and you are sailing close to the wind.