What Is It With Americans & Guns

[DM]

Originally Posted by Jono

when did you see a pistol like a Hammerli free pistol used for any thing other than target shooting.. or a Webley and Scott .22 break top single shot?

Wowee Jono. You certainly know your guns.

Originally Posted by Alice

Interesting that the men were all fat.

I think you're onto something here. Alice.

DM

[Hugh Jardon]

Originally Posted by davidmanning

I think you're onto something here. Alice.

DM

Perhaps Alice likes fat men!!!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Jono

Polwart.. your quoted statistics don't say that... only between the last two recorded years published.. hardly a trend... since '97 what has the trend been?

In the period since 1997 the police have changed the way they record the statistics 3 times... ...so any comparison of the direct numbers could be misleading. However:

Crimes using "immitation weapons" have risen consistently since the term was introduced in 1999.

Crimes using handguns have fallen for the last two recorded years (but did rise in the late 90's) - there isn't enough information to know if this fluctuation is normal / random or a trend.

Because the way the police record the stats changed, it seems that the home office are preferring to compare the % of all crimes that involved guns rather than the absolute number. This doesn't seem innapropriate to me, although it could be a fudge!

in the 10 years to 2003/04 the change in the % of total crime that involved firearms in 0.1%. I would suggest that this is not a significant increase.

The figures are also broken down to include each type of crime (e.g. offences against person, criminal damage, robbery etc). All are now at lower levels (as % involving guns of the total crime) than they were 10 years before, with the exception of criminal damage (these figures include air gun crime which accounts for much of this).

Finally firearm related mortality in England and Wales remains the lowest (0.3 per 100,000 population per annum) in anywhere in the developed world with the exception of Japan (0.1 per 100,000 population per annum). [this excludes luxemburg and malta where this value is not reported - presumably due to the small populations]

All this information came from - Home Office website, and various links therefrom - including the UK Office of Statistics.

[codprawn]

If all this is the case why are more and more of our Police carrying guns?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

If all this is the case why are more and more of our Police carrying guns?

I would suggest you address that question to your MP (and/or MWA, if they have power over policing in Wales). Afterall these are official government statistics.

To be honest, outside airports etc. we don't see much armed police up here. If you are referring to the Met being armed - well they do have about 1/3 of the whole of England and Wales gun crime in their area!

NEIL

[pathalla]

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

Do you think it is a good idea to teach a small girl to use a machine gun?

I have a daughter and I think
Showing them what a weapon will do and operating it gives them a real sense of what it can do and just how dangerous they really are. I would rather my daughter know this about weapons, unlike the morons in Hollywood who will glamourize death and violence from/with firearms just for the sake of the almightly dollar and then turn around and say we have to do something about gun violence! Duh!!! You are promoting it in damn near every movie you make! I do not want her to think such things (firearms) are some kind of make believe, educated versus uneducated, I believe is best. That being said, very little time is spent on guns, it is dad's interest, not hers. I also want her to know it is very dangerous crossing busy streets, you don't play with fire, and you always wear a life jacket on boats. Yes, boats are dangerous too, in their own way.

[pathalla]

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

Do you think it is a good idea to teach a small girl to use a machine gun?

Well... one good thing may come of it, no one is going to steal her boat!

[Alice]

Originally Posted by Jono

Cobblers... typical reaction from someone who knows feck' all about firearms.. when did you see a pistol like a Hammerli free pistol used for any thing other than target shooting.. or a Webley and Scott .22 break top single shot? Neither pistol was as "deadly" as (still unlicensed and available) bows, yet you say they were designed for "killing" ?
Don't get me wrong, Dunblane was a feckin' tragedy of epic proportion.. but... and it's a big but.... it could have been prevented with legislation that was in place already.... how many people know that that fecka Hamilton had already been found in possession ILLEGALY.. and that his FAO had recommended that he had his renewal turned down?... over ridden by a senior officer who didn't want the hassle? What happened to that senior officer?... retired with his pension in tact, quietly?


PS…. I don’t think Yanks should be allowed pointed sticks… let alone firearms… but hey? That’s just me……..






That oughta start our Merkin Cousins off nicely….. *ducks head below parapet*….

That is such a weak argument it's not worthy of a reply.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Alice

That is such a weak argument it's not worthy of a reply.

I happen to agree with Jono.

I'm sick of closed minded people that don't think their argument through to conclusion. It appears that these people can only think in knee-jerk reactions.

[Andy Moore]

Originally Posted by codprawn

If all this is the case why are more and more of our Police carrying guns?

Rubbish. Specialist Firearms Units carry guns, not regular Police Officers.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

Rubbish. Specialist Firearms Units carry guns, not regular Police Officers.

So it's usual for specialist firearms units to patrol shopping areas carrying HK's?

Go to Manchester centre or central London and see for yourself.

[tcwozere]

Originally Posted by pathalla

Well... one good thing may come of it, no one is going to steal her boat!

Not surprised, their not gonna get very far with no toobs..

[pathalla]

That's why they're up there, tubes were pinched!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Alice

That is such a weak argument it's not worthy of a reply.

Wasn't an argument... just pointing out that people who have no understanding of firearms tend to adopt "slogans".... seen the news today? Manchester shootings?

I always argued that pistols for target shooting are not the same as the pistols used in gun crime. What was the issue against keeping them at an approved range? Single shot .22's or even semi auto .22 shorts categorised the same as .40 semi autos or .44 mag revolvers ?

.... but then legislation is often drafted by people with no understanding...

[limeydal]

Thought I would drop my ten cents in as I have lived on both sides of the pond and think I have a little experience in this.
Back in living in the Midlands days, I had a keen interest in guns after being brought up on BB and air rifles.(Still have my webley junior pistol today! ).But trying to follow that interest was very difficult.In the end joined a local range (Wednesbury Marksmen ) and learned the basics and safety of handguns there. Was just so restrictive though that took a lot of the enjoyment out of it. Rules of ownership of your own weapons /ammo was just ludicrous.
On moving to the States I saw the other side of the fence. You could go to your local Kmart and buy rifles and shotguns. (little more restrictive on handguns).
Over the last ten years I have seen all sorts of legislation brought in to try and curb the illegal use of guns.Biggest issue I can see is ,they all target the legal,honest user. The criminal faction dont and wont abide by these rules anyway. So what you get is a one sides situation where only the "bad guys "have the guns Unfortunately is only the "gun nuttters" and extremists that get the press and give the rest of the gun community a bad name.
My two young boys show a keen interest in many field sports and I encourage that fact. We recently went to an organised event for junior shooters that was a great family day. In a very structured and well run event, they taught, archery,.22 rifle, blackpowder rifle,as well as tomahawk throwing and fire starting crafts.
I was very proud that my one son was youngest there to win a medal for the black powder silouhette shooting event.
So are we all nutters and wierdos for enjoying guns
Just like any other education for your kids;it's much better being shown the correct way instead of being drawn into it on the streets.My kids have a great respect for firearms ,but that doesn't mean they cant also have fun with them.
As for the young girl with the fully auto machine gun;a little extreme for my own views, but not for me to dictate my opinions on others(that should be saved just for the Dads anyhow
So no easy answer on the gun issue. Just need more educated and informed people before they start jumping on the anti-gun bandwagon.

cheers dal

[pathalla]

Good to see you bringing up your children to respect firearms. I teach my daughter the same, absolutely positively respect firearms! Target shooting is great recreation, properly instructed I believe children are better prepared and educated for today's world. My daughter is taught to have respect for all living things and to admire the beauty and miracle of life on this planet. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of killing going on worldwide due to politics and greed, I am afraid that our children are so exposed to this they will become numb to it, due to news exposure, media. This is a bad bad thing.
It seems to me if you put average people with average people, be they from anywhere, they find a way to get along. Inject politics, business, everything changes. Governments over the ages have accounted for untold loss of life, that trend continues... I know many people here wonder why in the hell OUR military has been all over the globe since Vietnam... killing people and blowing things up is good for business... you need to fix what has been destroyed sell weapons etc.. We humans still have one leg up in the tree in my opinion.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Anyone noticed how guncrime has increased since Britain became the only country in the World to have a total ban on handguns?

Gun crime in the UK is getting out of control. Daily we read of news of shootings by the criminal element. The do gooders that banned hand guns should have spent our money, and their effort, taking stock of what is happening on our streets. Our UK government should STOP massaging the crime figures to appease their egos, and enhance their re election chances. Removing hand guns from private ownership has done NOTHING to eliminate that type of crime.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

All rather worrying.

Would be nice to put a few Chavs on the Range.

Also, Your local British Farmer wouldn't let you anywhere near his land but he'd want your subsidies and you to buy his produce at the local market at an inflated price.

Come the day of the revolution the farmers will be first against the wall followed by the Chavs.

Rule Brittania.................

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

Rubbish. Specialist Firearms Units carry guns, not regular Police Officers.

I have seen armed officers strutting the streets of Swansea with pistols on their hips - have even seen them in our local Tesco doing their shopping!!!

I asked a few coppers what they thought of it and they were all totally against it. Apparently one night there was a disturbance in a local nightclub and the 2 armed officers couldn't go in just in case someone knicked their guns!!!

In swansea it is down to the Chief constable - Barbara Wilding. Apparently it sends out a "positive" message!!!

I couldn't believe it when I heard on the news the other night who instigated this shoot to kill policy - guess who - yup Ms Wilding!!!

[The Garfish]

Originally Posted by limeydal

they taught, archery,.22 rifle, blackpowder rifle,as well as tomahawk throwing and fire starting crafts.

orl de likkul bastuds rownd heer cann doo orl dat shitt bi de tyme thay arr fyve yeers owld.

de likkul cherrubs sett fyre too de sinamer wen thay wazunt alowd inn too sea rezervoirr doggs.

de plaice birnt too de fkin grownd cuz de fyrefyters woz riduld wiv arrers an ad tommahorks stikkin owt ov ther heds

wen de polis tirned upp thay woz repeld wiv wel tymed vollies ov muskitry fromm ome maid gunns fild wiv fyrewerk gunnpowdir

edyewcashun iz a wunderful fing.

gArf