What Is It With Americans & Guns

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by codprawn

...In swansea it is down to the Chief constable - Barbara Wilding. Apparently it sends out a "positive" message!!!

I couldn't believe it when I heard on the news the other night who instigated this shoot to kill policy - guess who - yup Ms Wilding!!!

There's nothing worse that a woman in power.

They're hard bu**ers.

[Dave Clarkson]

Originally Posted by pathalla

...... Inject politics, business, everything changes......

Don't forget religion!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Polwart

.....in the 10 years to 2003/04 the change in the % of total crime that involved firearms in 0.1%. I would suggest that this is not a significant increase.......

Yes, but what it does show is that the 97 ban had no effect other than to stop a group of generally law abiding people having their fun

Originally Posted by Polwart

.....Finally firearm related mortality in England and Wales remains the lowest (0.3 per 100,000 population per annum) in anywhere in the developed world with the exception of Japan (0.1 per 100,000 population per annum)......

This is miss leading because people are still killing themselves and each other they just aren’t using guns, Classic spin and you fell for it Des

[Nate]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I have seen armed officers strutting the streets of Swansea with pistols on their hips - have even seen them in our local Tesco doing their shopping!!!

Couple of weeks ago saw a couple of plod buying their chewing gum in our local Tescos (Taunton) and yes - they each had a handgun strapped to their legs.

I remember the wholly justified public furore that followed the arming of plod at Heathrow several years ago. We were assured such measures were necessary to prevent terrorism. Not only have such measures singularly failed to prevent or deter terrorism, they have unarguably led to the innocent death of at least one Brazilian!

I'm not even sure what terrorists would want in Taunton anyway, but by God plod do love to f*cking swagger!

[Kernow Buoy]

Originally Posted by Nate

Not only have such measures singularly failed to prevent or deter terrorism,

Nate, only the terrorists would know that!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

Yes, but what it does show is that the 97 ban had no effect other than to stop a group of generally law abiding people having their fun



This is miss leading because people are still killing themselves and each other they just aren’t using guns, Classic spin and you fell for it Des

Couldn't agree more. Mate of mine was a retired BT engineer - lovely old bloke with an amazing collection of guns - had to give them all up and waited years to get compensation.

Guess what - it turns out the coppers in charge of the compensation were stealing the money!!!

Amazes me when they have these amnestys - handing in knives for example. What criminal is going to hand one in? I think I would prefer someone to come at me with a banned lock knife with a 6" blade than some of the knives I see in Tesco!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Nate

Couple of weeks ago saw a couple of plod buying their chewing gum in our local Tescos (Taunton) and yes - they each had a handgun strapped to their legs.

I remember the wholly justified public furore that followed the arming of plod at Heathrow several years ago. We were assured such measures were necessary to prevent terrorism. Not only have such measures singularly failed to prevent or deter terrorism, they have unarguably led to the innocent death of at least one Brazilian!

I'm not even sure what terrorists would want in Taunton anyway, but by God plod do love to f*cking swagger!

Tell me about it - how long before a copper gets shot with his own gun? Happens in the US all the time - a minor scuffle soon escaltates out of all proportion!!!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Tell me about it - how long before a copper gets shot with his own gun? ...

Happened already.... Circa '94... Firearms officer shot with his own (revolver in those days) weapon... mind you.. it was in the mess room at the station... by another officer...by accident.... .Tsk, tsk.... all recounted to me by another officer who was present at the time... I don't believe it made the papers...

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

Learn to treat guns with respect? Fine! I have nothing against shooting. However, civilians have absolutely *no need* to learn to fire machine guns.. They are for killing people.

And as for admiring guns as some sort of engineering work of art is -in my opinion- slightly unhinged.

Hence your rather aghast reaction to the video. I personally see no point in collecting, say, Pez dispensers, but still, people do.

FWIW, the machine guns used at that meet are all collectors pieces (and pricey ones at that.) Americans typically do not walk around armed with M-240s.

The collectors have all passed extremely thorough background checks, and have, on average, waited well over ten years for a Class 3 Federal Firearms License.

The shooters are participating, not so much to gain proficiency, but rather because it's an anomaly; something you can do there that you can't do anywhere else (almost true; there are some other places where full-auto firearms and range time can be rented.) The shooting spots on the range at the meet are booked well in advance (two years on average), and time on the guns is booked shortly after the range lineup is filled.

Is it necessary? Of course not. Neither is teaching some kid to ride a motorcycle extremely fast on a road course. It is simply something people do for entertainment.

jky

[Nate]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I think I would prefer someone to come at me with a banned lock knife with a 6" blade than some of the knives I see in Tesco!!!

Aahhh! So that's why the coppers patrol Tesco's with guns!

Anyone fancy a sponsored "Have A Go At Codders With A Knife" event? He sounds up for it!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Nate

Aahhh! So that's why the coppers patrol Tesco's with guns!

Anyone fancy a sponsored "Have A Go At Codders With A Knife" event? He sounds up for it!!

Too right - I always carry a chainsaw in the boot!!!

[Biggles]

the Yanks have a better angle on life than us.

Wish i could carry a gun. Might get rid of a few Chavs.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

Yes, but what it does show is that the 97 ban had no effect other than to stop a group of generally law abiding people having their fun

didn't claim it did. I just contested codprawn's assertion that guncrime had increased since the 1997 ban.

This is miss leading because people are still killing themselves and each other they just aren’t using guns, Classic spin and you fell for it Des

well from a cursory glance at the statistics actually they are not! Murder (total) and suicide rates are lower here too! Perhaps because more likely to be successful if you use a gun?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

didn't claim it did. I just contested codprawn's assertion that guncrime had increased since the 1997 ban.



well from a cursory glance at the statistics actually they are not! Murder (total) and suicide rates are lower here too! Perhaps because more likely to be successful if you use a gun?

I agree the figures don't really show much of a change. What doesn't help is the total hystrical over reaction to the sight of anything that looks like a gun.

I mean if I see a kid with a gun I think - ah look at that little kid with a waterpistol. There have been loads of incidents of people calling the police - they then treat it like a proper firearms incident.

If you look at how many REAL guns are used thankfully the figures are still tiny.

So WHY do we need police wandering our streets with guns? Tony Blair has got a hell of a lot to answer for!!!

[ian parkes]

I agree with Codprawn
My dad taught me tyo use a gun safely a a kid , when My mates had air rifles and behaved badly with them I had the common sense to keep away from them .

Those gun nuts probably consider a 200 hp rib exessive .

If you are worried by guns , just think how the person feels in a kayak or small dingy when we go blasting past in a fast boat . I have been there and believe me is feckin scary .
There is plenty of boy racers with fast speed boats and jetskis evrywhere and they often have accidents , no training or licence required .

Passed the tamar river police boat at weekend , armed policeman standing on stern with assault rifle watching me carefully as I passed the Dockyard .

I can think of a reason for that machine gun , Cornish Holiday Town seagulls

[codprawn]

See what I mean about guns getting everywhere? Even when the IRA were at their peak it wasn't like this!!!

The IRA were the most proffesional terrorist organisation the world has ever seen - the people who do it in the NAME of Al Queda are not organised at all - they even had to use crude home made explosives that are totally unstable.

[Hugh Jardon]

i was trained by the professionals!

guns get to be a pain in the butt when you have to go everywhere with em and sleep with em as well

is amazing how unreliable they get when a little bit of dirt gets inside the mechanisms

quite scarey really, would hate to have to rely on one for my life as you are never really sure if it will work when needed to in my experience..

roll around in the dirt and drag it thru mud and water then try to use it

[pathalla]

Carrying a firearm is not a easy thing. I have a license to carry a concealed weapon, loaded. It is not a responsibility to be taken lightly. I have a license because I support the law, concealed carry licenses are available to U.S. citizens in almost every state, provided you pass your training course and background check. Statistically, crime has decreased in every state a concealed carry law has been passed. Armed citizens are NOT running around shooting one another. The last thing a law abiding citizen wants to do is shoot another person. It is a weapon of last resort. It has however, put the fear of god into those who would break the law. Now the good guys are armed! A criminal is more likely to commit crimes or hurt someone if there is little risk to him. The tables have turned.

My experience with most modern arms is that they are quite reliable, revolvers made by Colt, Smith and Wesson and Ruger have little to no chance of malfunction given normal maintenance and good ammunition. My personal preference in semi-autos are guns manufactured by Walther, HK, Sigarms and Glock, you have got to give it to the Huns, they manufacture superb weapons
and are extremely reliable. These are great pistols.

Given Britain's legendary history of fine Gunmaking it is particularly shameful what has happened to the citizen's right of ownership. Gun ownership is definitely a hot button topic, but I can tell you one thing, it will deter crime, over here you don't actually even need to own one, just plant the seed of doubt, put a sticker on your doors that says "the owner of this house is armed and dangerous, there is nothing inside worth dying for". I will guarantee any scumbag who reads it will go elsewhere.

One final comment... from the threads on this forum it seems as if there is a higher theft rate in the U.K., pictures of boats on trailers with wheel locks, one guy commenting someone cut his motor off the transom of his boat, what is your crime late like over there? Maybe I am wrong in thinking so, please comment.

[Milan]

[QUOTE=Jono] Happened already.... Circa '94... Firearms officer shot with his own (revolver in those days) weapon... mind you.. it was in the mess room at the station... by another officer...by accident.... .Tsk, tsk.... all recounted to me by another officer who was present at the time... I don't believe it made the papers... [/Q

Jono is this the accident that happened at the City of London police headquarters not the MET. were an officer was unloading his weapon after finishing his shift and had a negligent discharge which ricocheted around the room and hit a fellow officer??
Or is that a separate incident ?

[Andy Stevens]

One mans waste of time is another mans hobby!

Do we really need to waste fuel and polute the atmosphere on totally pointless trips around the solent?

If people want to play with guns, let them.

One of my other hobbies is Airsoft, we're looking a ban in the face due to chavs using cheap replicas, typical Blair policy of banning eveything!

If you beat someone with a cricket bat, you going to ban them? How about bricks? You can throw them, best ban them!

On our flight to Korea, my misses had her cuticle cutters taken off her, yet we were given a metal knife on the aircraft!

I hate this stupid planet!