Who killed Bambi?

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by alexm

Am I right in thinking the .35 Whelen is a necked up .30-06? I shoot a .243 on smaller deer species here in the UK, and a .30-06 on the large species.

Alex

Hi Alex,

You are exactly right -.30-06 brass necked up for a .358" bullet that is typically either 200 or 250 grains. A number of guys around here use a .243 on whitetails, since it is very flat shooting & accurate round. Ideal for open country where longer shots may be involved. If you go west of Winnipeg you get into very wide open flat prairie with clumps of bush. This would be where flat shooting rounds like the .243, & .270 really shine.

The type of terrain that I usually hunt is to the east & north of Winnipeg, consisting of lakes, granite ridges & very thick bush. I have a 1.5 x 4 Leupold scope which very rarely gets dialed beyond 1.5 power. At least 95% of shots made in this area would be under 100 yards, probably 75% of the time, they will be under 50 yards.

The deer are large bodied yet will often tuck deep into thick bush and stay low hoping to get unnoticed as you walk past them. I often wonder how many times I've walked past a deer at less than 30 yards without knowing that they are there. I also hunt black bear and moose in the same sort of terrain.

What I like about the 35 Whelen is that it is a very effective caliber on all 3 of these animals. It hits like Thor's hammer the way you would expect from the +.30 caliber magnums, with recoil that is pretty much the same as from a 30-06. It won't be quite as flat of a shooter as 30-06, but for the ranges I typically shoot, it is flat enough. It will deliver a heavier bullet with a greater cross section, than the 30-06. I like the stomper bullets with moderate velocities (250g @ ~2500-2600 fps). One does need to be careful with the super velocity rounds (even with lighter bullets) because they can destroy alot of meat if the bullet fragments.

That, and its' something different from a 30-06, which is probably the singlemost popular big game round in North America (the .308 & .270 would probably be next). I have no doubt that the 30-06 is probably the most practical & verstile cartridge available for North American big game in various types of terrain.

[Bigmuz7]

Hmm PT .. dunno why you're so stacked on a 35 Whelan ? a 300 win mag will give similar fps with that weight of head, and not such a specialist calibre (and the cases are the same length)..... so the hardwear is cheaper usually .. Remington Sendero for example .. a fine piece of kit if you can handle the weight

as for 270's .. some ranges around here are banning them due to the muzzle energy they can reach .... them and 220 swifts I think,.. IIRC

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Hmm PT .. dunno why you're so stacked on a 35 Whelan ? a 300 win mag will give similar fps with that weight of head, and not such a specialist calibre (and the cases are the same length)..... so the hardwear is cheaper usually .. Remington Sendero for example .. a fine piece of kit if you can handle the weight

as for 270's .. some ranges around here are banning them due to the muzzle energy they can reach .... them and 220 swifts I think,.. IIRC

Horses for courses I guess. The 35 Whelen has a fair bit less recoil than the 300 WM. If I hunted elk-moose size game in more open country, the 300 WM would be tough to beat. However, the 35 puts a wider projectile through the animal. 35 whelen ammo is considerably cheaper especially if you reload yourself since used 30-06 brass can be obtained cheaply, and the 35 whelen uses much less powder. Checking in my Lyman reloading book, I can't find any data for loading 250 grain bullet for the 300 WM, but if we were to compare the loading data for a 200 grain jacketed bullet for these 2 cartridges the max recommended loads are;

72 grains of IMR 4831 for the 300 WM for a muzzle velocity of 2705 fps

59 grains of IMR 4895 for the 35 Whelen for a muzzle velocity of 2675 fps

Slightly different powder but the 300 WM uses 22% more powder to achieve 1.1 % greater velocity.


I googled "300 win mag vs. 35 Whelen" and the merits of these to cartridges in a head to head comparison has been discussed a fair bit. Some folk get very passionate about their favorite cartridge, but it all comes down what works best for your specific application. Here are some related links;


http://www.realtree.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14052

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1124910AAQ3cr7

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...pics/1150229/1

[alexm]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Some folk get very passionate about their favorite cartridge

You got that right, on the shooting forums here in the UK it's normally the 6.5x55 vs. XXX threads that will go 30+ pages. The 6.5 Swedes are a militant bunch.

There seems to be a resurgence of the .30-06 family of calibres here in the UK recently. For several years it's been .22-250, .243, .308 but it seems like .25-06, .270, .30-06 are making a comeback! The Whelen is something I have never seen though, so it's interesting to hear your comments. There is a lot to be said for slower, heavier rounds even if they have a bit of a loopy trajectory, especially like you say when the ranges you are shooting at are relatively consistent.

You mentioned 'tag soup' , is the deer hunting managed in a similar way to the US where you are allocated x amount of tags?

[prairie tuber]

Well the 6.5 Swedish is indeed a great deer round, and has a very strong following in North America as well. A Husqvarna rifle in 6.5 that is in good - mint condition is a very highly regarded tool. In Manitoba, bullet calibers must be a minimum of .24" to be legal for big game, so the super fast 22 centerfires such as the 22-250 & 220 swift are considered varmint rounds (coyotes & smaller).

The license purchase system varies from province to province in Canada but in general, is similar to the systems in the states. In Manitoba, if a Manitoba resident hunter purchases every type of deer license available, he could take up to 6 deer in a season. These licenses are:

1. Archery
2. Muzzleloader
3. General (Rifle, muzzleloader, or archery euipment may be used)
4. 2nd deer - antlerless (does or bucks with antler spikes less than 4" long)
5. 3rd deer - antlerless (does or bucks with antler spikes less than 4" long)
6. Muzzleloader/shotgun slug


Licenses for categories 4-6 can only be purchased by Manitoba residents, and are only useable in certain specified parts of the province. Non-Manitoba resident Canadians can purchase licenses for categories 1-3 over the counter, but the cost of these licenses is a fair bit more than for Manitoba residents. Non-Canadians can choose from categories 1-3, but must book their big game hunts through a licensed outfitter (much more spendy).

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Hmm PT .. dunno why you're so stacked on a 35 Whelan ? a 300 win mag will give similar fps with that weight of head, and not such a specialist calibre (and the cases are the same length)..... so the hardwear is cheaper usually .. Remington Sendero for example .. a fine piece of kit if you can handle the weight

as for 270's .. some ranges around here are banning them due to the muzzle energy they can reach .... them and 220 swifts I think,.. IIRC

Always used a .243 for ALL species over here,with no problems.VERY accurate,with a 9x3 variable S&B scope!I saw a programme about S.W.A.T teams recently,and was not surprised to see they used the exact same combo for their anti sniper work! My dear old Dad used a .270 Anshutz LIGHTWEIGHT for years on Fallow and Reds,a fine weapon but OVERKILL most of the time and as a youngster it really 'booted'![Cured me of flinching though!]
IMHO for most woodland stalking of Roe even a .243 is a bit much,the tripple2's and swifts being more than adequate!Richard Prior a famous West Country stalker and author advocated the .22 Hornet as his ideal Summer Roe round,and I must say it is a hell of a little round.
Still the legislators have the the last word,and before anyone says I know,and abide by the minimum .240 calibre.Happy hunting..wherever you are!

[Alangaq]

My Wife shoots a Remington model 7 chambered in .260 Remington which is nothing more than a .308 Win necked down to 6.5, or the .243 necked up…. Either way, it’s a nice shooting little rifle that is perhaps marginally better performance wise than the 6.5 Swedish.

I am pretty much in the same boat as prairie tuber in that most shooting distances that I routinely encounter allow for lower velocity large diameter loadings. All of the critters that I have shot thus far have been with the 30-06 however I plan to switch things up a bit and try something different for the next couple of years. I have a nice Winchester model 70 in 375 H&H that has been sitting around for about 15 years, and I figure since I now have a SIB and an ATV to cart it around on that I might just give it a go this year but it’s way to heavy to use for extended stalking or walking type hunts. I also have a pair of .375 Winchester’s that I am keen to blast something with…one each Marlin and Winchester, but so far I have not been able to get the kind of accuracy that I am wanting out of them. And then there is the 45/70 but since I have cut the barrel back to 16 ½” it is a short range kind of deal best suited for bear protection or a close in moose shot.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Alangaq

I have a nice Winchester model 70 in 375 H&H

I was invited to go tank driving a couple of years ago .. and I'd done it several times and thought ok .. again so I did the business, and got talking with the owner who specialises in Abbots and Centurions in the UK and he insisted, I help him sight in his Ruger 375 H&H .... having done this .. He looked at me after firing 20 shots ? .. which is more than he shoots in 3 years and tells me... that he never fires until he gets within a hundred yards of the stag ..I thought .... all that fire power and he could have knocked it on the head he was that close

Now that 'is' an artform

...... These rough shooting dudes need to wise up to 1/4 minute of angle performance or better ..... .. then they'd be sniper grade

[Alangaq]

...... These rough shooting dudes need to wise up to 1/4 minute of angle performance or better ..... .. then they'd be sniper grade [/QUOTE]


well even if my 375H&H was that accurate, I doubt that I am! but it will put 5 shots into an honest inch and a half at 100 yards using Hornady 270rg rn bullets, and it doesnt hurt that the rifle weighs about 11lbs fully loaded and sits nicely on the bags! thats at least 1/4 minute of moose!