Wind Farms

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by MadMat

...I don't understand people who are so against wind farms, but I guess they're the same kind of people who wanted to put a speed limit on windermere...

That's a bit presumptuous, Mr Yorke.

[Matt]

Yep.

[Matt]

1) trawsfynydd might not be there - but the highly radioactive waste products are sitting in a big underground bunker somewhere, and will need to be for the next millenia.

2) In what way are gas and oil not finite? They are not being replenished, once it's gone it's gone, and then ya have to wait a few million years. There are no more reserves now than in the 70's - we just know about more of them now, and it becomes more economically viable to use more difficult/remote reserves as technology, and the price of oil, advances. I suppose technically, the sun is finite too, cos one day it'll wear out, but we probably only have 50 years or so of oil left, perhaps a bit more, some say less. It'd be a shame to be overoptimistic and end up up shit creek wouldn't it?

Anyway, have you seen this site, http://www.kiddofspeed.com/ Well worth taking some time to look through.

Originally Posted by codprawn

I thought it was pretty obvious I care a hell of a lot about CO2 output as I have been harping on about it!!! I also happen to care a great deal about the environment which is why I hate seeing the amount of CO2 we chuck as as people are so scared of the N word.

Who says fission is bad??? PROPERLY controlled it is NOT so bad. Take a trip to trawsfynydd some time - you will find it pretty hard to believe there was ever a powerstation there.

The greens are stopping DECENT countries from having nuclear power whilst countries like China and Russia arte reaping the benefits of cheap power.

Gas and oil are NOT repeat NOT finite - there are more oil reserves now than there were in the 70s - the more the cost increases the more viable other oil sources become. BUT having said that buring oil and gas for power generation causes vast quantities of CO2 to be released.

It is about time the greens of this world stop attacking their OWN countries and start targetting the REAL polluters. China for example is like Britain was at the start of the industrial revolution - only a hell of a lot bigger.

[Rogue Wave]

Can we as powerboaters ( i.e producers of CO2 purely for pleasure) genuinely complain and show concrn over the greenhouse effect.

I first became aware of the greenhouse effect back in 1982 when I read an article in Scientific American, The ironic part was that I was on a plane at the time.

My initial thoughts were if we don't react to this problem we are Fkkd, My second thoughts were that we would ignore Nuke power stations at our peril. As that was twenty three years ago and we haven't really done much then it's probably time to do stop worrying about it as I fear it's too late anyway

Wave power, wind power have got to be explored. also if we used our existing nukes then can we not store the contaminents on te Ice caps that may not melt!

I know it's a big job but it's a chance to save the world! Where's Bruce fkkn Willis when you need him!

[Matt]

I also produce methane for pleasure, is that a greenhouse gas?

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

( i.e producers of CO2 purely for pleasure)

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by MadMat

1) trawsfynydd might not be there - but the highly radioactive waste products are sitting in a big underground bunker somewhere, and will need to be for the next millenia.

2) In what way are gas and oil not finite? They are not being replenished, once it's gone it's gone, and then ya have to wait a few million years. There are no more reserves now than in the 70's - we just know about more of them now, and it becomes more economically viable to use more difficult/remote reserves as technology, and the price of oil, advances. I suppose technically, the sun is finite too, cos one day it'll wear out, but we probably only have 50 years or so of oil left, perhaps a bit more, some say less. It'd be a shame to be overoptimistic and end up up shit creek wouldn't it?

Anyway, have you seen this site, http://www.kiddofspeed.com/ Well worth taking some time to look through.

Nuke waste can be dealt with WHEN we develop proper fusion reactors which shouldn't bee too much longer.

Actually oil and gas stocks ARE being replenished - many wells that were dry are filling back up as more oil leaches into them. You are right in that we "just know of more" reserves but as the price goes up more and more comes to light. I do NOT agree with wasting it on power generation though - far better to use it to power 250hp outboards.....

As to that website that is my WHOLE point - Nuclear power needs to be used properly - NOT by 3rd world countries.

Germany and Sweden were so shocked by Chernobyl they banned all nuke power - they buy huge amounts of gas from russia to make elecetricity - and what do Russia do with the money? Build more Nuke power plants like Chernobyl.

Personally I would father rather Germany and Sweden have Nuke power than Russia!!!!

[slimtim]

Originally Posted by MadMat

Anyway, have you seen this site, http://www.kiddofspeed.com/ Well worth taking some time to look through.

I've spent hours looking through that site before. Its pretty amazing and certainly makes you think. Definately worth sitting and letting the photos load.

Tim

[Colin F]

i'm not entirely convinced about global warming because as i understand it

1) britain was once in an ice age, and came out of it without humans pumping any 'greenhouse gasses' into the atmosphere.
2) sea levels have been hugely higher in the past, fossils of sea creatures have been found on areas of high ground. obviously at some time the sea level has dropped again to current levels
3) We are not anywhere near previously reached limits of global temperature from years back.

I suspect to a point a lot of this temperature change is within a normal cycle of rising and falling temperatures.

Also on a side note, David Bellamy was on the TV a year or so back saying that carbon dioxide is not the worst greenhouse gas, he said that water vapour was. If i understand it correctly, current Catalytic converters in car produce more water vapour than cars with no 'cat'. Could they be doing more harm than good???

i'm definitely not saying i know any answers to these, just that some of it doesn't seem to add up..........................................who knows

please correct me if i am wrong on any of the above as it is all from my 'grey cells'

colin

[Hightower]

Global warming is a serious threat if you belive the Horizon program a couple of months back.

Water vapour and particulates in the atmosphere actually reflect light back into space and help keep the planet cooler (Global Dimming). Scientists didn't relise this untill recently and the projected outcome is that if we continue to stop pumping particulate waste and water vapour without also stopping greenhouse gasses then it's possible in as few as 80 or 100 years to have global meltdown. You'd only have to raise the sea temperature by a few degrees to set off a release of hydrocarbons beneath the sea bed that would make for certain doom.

Get out there and enjoy youself......While you still can.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog..._summary.shtml

[codprawn]

Both of you have good points - also natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions can have a far bigger effect than man's puny attempts.

[Jono]

There is a much cheaper, more effective and absolutely safe way to combat all of the above problems. It's not painful, it doesn't cost anything and everyone...and I do mean everyone.... on the planet can both contribute and benefit. I notice that no-one has the balls to mention it though... especially politicians.... any one guessed it yet?
How about this then? Vote for Jono at the election and I will introduce a policy so basic, so simple and yet so effective that I will surely be cannonised...

..and just in case anyone thinks I am biased, I will declare that I rely on the oil industry for my living, but would give it up today if my policy became law....

[Keith Hart]

Jono

How about, walking to work, catching public transport, switching off electrical items on the dreaded 'standby' etc.

Oh of course, convert your vehicles to run on LPG.

Keith (environmentally friendly recycled brackets) Hart

[Matt]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Nuke waste can be dealt with WHEN we develop proper fusion reactors which shouldn't bee too much longer.

The parameters for a controlled fusion reaction are so tight, there is absolutely no way that heavy isotope byproducts will be disposed of in the fusion reactor, unless you can find my a technical paper to the contrary. The only option is to keep storing the fission waste. I suppose you could launch it into space and fire it at the sun.

Actually oil and gas stocks ARE being replenished - many wells that were dry are filling back up as more oil leaches into them.

Incorrect again. The stocks are not replenishing, the oil is already there in the ground, it's just filtering up to the wellheads through the porous rock. There is no new oil being made, at least on any timescale that is relevant to humanity.

You are right in that we "just know of more" reserves but as the price goes up more and more comes to light.

As the sustainable cost of oil goes up, it becomes cost effective to utilise more difficult and innaccesible oil fields. There's a big oil field west of shetland that is so far untapped, but it's in such deep water that it's very expensive to utilise. Once the sustainable cost exceeds $30 per barrel, that field will be tapped. I know it's $50 at the moment, but that's not considered a sustainable price for now.

As to that website that is my WHOLE point - Nuclear power needs to be used properly - NOT by 3rd world countries.

France was exploding nuclear warheads in the pacific until 1988. The US conducted their last test in 1993 and the last air test was conducted by china in 1980. Appriximately 438 megatons of nuclear warheads have been exploded in the atmosphere. I spose you might consider 1980 china 3rd world, but have you forgotten that the ussr was a world superpower not long ago?

Germany and Sweden were so shocked by Chernobyl they banned all nuke power - they buy huge amounts of gas from russia to make elecetricity - and what do Russia do with the money? Build more Nuke power plants like Chernobyl.

The chernobyl reactor was a flawed design, the remaining reactors in chernobyl were shut down in 2000 and remaining RBMK (The chernobyl design) reactors have all been modified. Germany and Sweden are slowly phasing out their existing fission reactors, but they are still running and producing power at this time.

[Matt]

Nah, hydrogen. Create electrical power from your favourite environmental friendly power source, electrolyse water to create hydrogen and oxygen, and burn them again in yer engine to provide motive power with water vapour being the only emission.

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

Oh of course, convert your vehicles to run on LPG.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by MadMat

.....with water vapour being the only emission.

We've got enuff clouds 'n rain already, thank you.

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by MadMat

Nah, hydrogen. Create electrical power from your favourite environmental friendly power source, electrolyse water to create hydrogen and oxygen, and burn them again in yer engine to provide motive power with water vapour being the only emission.

can you imagin the queues in the fuelling stations. It's a bit cold that stuff if I recall it needs a robotic filling system.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

Jono

How about, walking to work, catching public transport, switching off electrical items on the dreaded 'standby' etc.

Oh of course, convert your vehicles to run on LPG.

Keith (environmentally friendly recycled brackets) Hart

Nope... something much more basic than that and applies to all those who aren't fortunate to either run vehicles or have a place of work, or even have an electricity supply....... much, much simpler and as i said in my previous post... everyone can do their bit and save Earth...

[Jono]

Originally Posted by jwalker

We've got enuff clouds 'n rain already, thank you.

aaah... the price you pay for living "North of the border"....

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

can you imagin the queues in the fuelling stations. It's a bit cold that stuff if I recall it needs a robotic filling system.

Wouldn't be any worse than filling up with LPG - in fact BP already operate a few hydrogen filling stations!!! Wouldn't be any more dangerous either. In fact spilled hydrogen would just vanish into thin air - not like petrol in the bilges.....

It makes far more sense to me to operate hydrogen in a conventional internal combustion engine than muck around with fuel cells in electric cars - after all internal combustion engines have been around for over 100 years and have had quite a bit of development.

Also burning hydrogen means NO CO2!!! See it would be possible to run 2x 250hp Fichts AND be good to the environment!!!

[Matt]

More intelligent than your average petrol station attendant then!

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

it needs a robotic filling system.