WWII Military Canoe

[doggypaddle]

Originally Posted by Nasher

oe.
Note how close the crankshaft centre has to be to the false deck in there.
It rules out anything with a large flywheel.
Nasher

Dont forget most of the older stationary and marine engine of this size and era had the flywheel on the non power take off end of the engine,
looking at the propshaft angle and projecting forwards the length of an engine and coupling, there is probably a bit more room at the front of the engine?
If it was an aircooled engine the flywheel would need to be ~8" dia at least to shift any air, assuming a centrifugal fan as in most aircooled engines this size.

Electric power would be nice

[Nasher]

Hello guys.

To confirm, there is a water inlet and outlet within the stern section.
There isn't a lot of airflow available either with the lid closed, so I'm assuming its water cooled.

I'll see if I have some better images of the rear end with the lid closed when I get home later.

Nos
Can I request you split this from the original trailer thread into other or something. Ta

I am sorted for a trailer now thanks, Davybouy has access to a 'spare' SR5.4 trailer I can use.


Nasher.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Can I request you split this from the original trailer thread into other or something. Ta

Rather than unpick it, I've just moved the whole thread

John

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Rather than unpick it, I've just moved the whole thread

John

Ta John.

It ended up going off topic a little.

Nasher.

[Nasher]

Thanks to lots of help from Nos4r2 and Doggypaddle it looks like I'm definately after a Norman/Coventry Victor Midget flat twin. But it must be a water cooled version.

Any leads appreciated.

Below are some more detail pics as promised to Nos.

Nasher

[Nasher]

So the long drive is planned to get the canoe down to the NMM in Falmouth.

Sunday morning leave Clanfield North of Pompey, over to Davybuoys house in Crawley, and then meet up with his friend and Sea Scout Colleague Nick to borrow Nicks Spare SR5.4 Trailer.

Nick
Can’t thank you enough for the loan of the trailer.

Then Crawley to my Mothers house near Maidenhead where I’ll spend the rest of the day carefully fitting the canoe to the trailer somehow.

Very early start Monday morning down to Taunton, where I’ll meet up with Quentin and put his canvas and plywood canoe on top of mine on the trailer.

Then off to Falmouth to drop the Canoes at The National Maritime Museum, drop Quentin back to Taunton and decide if I can make it to Crawley and back that evening with the trailer or if I’ll need to stop at home and take it back later in the week.

Monday night – Collapse.

Do it all in reverse in a couple of months time.

Nasher.

[Kernow Buoy]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Do it all in reverse in a couple of months time.

If it would help you to leave the trailer down here I've got space.

[Nasher]

Kernow

Hi, thats a very kind offer, however as its not mine and the time frame isn't set in stone, I'd rather get it back to its owner.

Thanks anyway.

Nasher.

[matt h]

just keep checking out Milweb on the net, i have seen an air cooled version as it also was coupled to a water pump, starting handle was at the front,

[Sailmaker]

Davybouys mate is a Sea Cadet not a Sea SCOUT! But I'll accept the insult as your a mate of Daves.

Incidentally the trailer involved will be up for sale soon as I need a braked version for boat. Watch this space.

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Sailmaker

Davybouys mate is a Sea Cadet not a Sea SCOUT!

I was in the Sea Scouts until my tent sank.

I'll take a look at this canoe when it arrives.

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by Sailmaker

Davybouys mate is a Sea Cadet not a Sea SCOUT! But I'll accept the insult as your a mate of Daves.

Ooops

So sorry.

I'll make sure some images of the trailer make it onto here for those that are interested.


Nasher.

[kewdos]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

We have one of those at the classic boat museum not sure what model it is though. Will have to find out.

HI just though i would tell you that the Classic Boat Museum have an aluminium canoe.
Its NOT a Mark 6.
It is a Mark 7. It was donated to the museum by Micheal Wharton who, together with his brother, acquired the canoe (when very young) from a removal firm . The canoe had been deposited by a French clergyman, who had probably forgot about it. The boys paid the overdue storage fee and/or the removal cost of the canoe to their home address. They used it constantly even into their adulthood.

One day it was stolen. A few days later when one of the boys was in a pub nearby and talked about the fact the canoe had been stolen, someone then mentioned they had seen a canoe stuck on the weir.

Sure enough it was the stolen canoe. Retrieved but damaged (as per even today, looks like a sharks head profile on bow section) the canoe continued to be used until it was laid up until the kind donation to the museum . (VERY GOOD and worthwhile a visit, the quality of the restorations are impeccable) - can i steal one of the other boats?).

The name given to the canoe by the 'boys' was 'Tintacs'.
(How is this all know?.. painstaking research picking at every last thread available). As a certified loon the process was used as occupational therapy!

Its 18ft long and a sailing/paddling canoe. google groups British Military Canoes and you will see SOME INFO on it.

Nasher still has very little idea quite how 'special' the canoe is, but it will no doubt warm him to know that he has contributed to the worlds understanding in allowing the nation (and others) to view this rather clever piece of engineering.

Whatever is written in the book, 'The Cockleshell Canoes', is 100% correct and supported by from source research.. that's why it took 7 years to figure out. It will seem so simple when you read the story.. but it was a hell of a battle to try and figure it all. It is sincerely hoped you find it interesting and before any questions are asked .. read it again!

Otherwise try the publication 'The Cockleshell Canoes' and the whole epic story of the ww2 military canoe is told for the very first time. AND.. unless its removed a little about the publication.... Its put in further on.

The Author is a LOONEY...

[kewdos]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Stuart, thanks very much for the offer, however that sounds as though it will be total overkill for a very lightweight boat.
I'll see if I can get something a bit lighter first as I am going to have to tow it to and from Bourne End and to and from Falmouth a couple of times mostly at my own expense.
I'll let you know.

Tim
I've seen the one in 'your' museum and at the moment I believe its a Mk6.
Quentin who's written the book has been in to see it on my advise, but until his book is out he's keeping a lot of his very hard earned info to himself.
He has a Mk6 himself in similar condition to yours.
I'll be getting a copy of the book soon, so will pop over and run through it with you.
Yours is much more complete than mine, having its sail etc. My centre section is exactly the same, however the bow section has a much higher lift at the very Bow. The stern section is completly different as it has an engine compartment and prop tube etc. As mentioned we believe mine is the only one of its kind left.

For those who don't know what we're talking about see below.
The historic image is of a Mk6 during the Burma campaign, and the colour images are of mine @10 years ago just before I dry stored it in my mothers garage. I actually brought it 22yrs ago for £10 from a scrap man who didn't have the heart to cut it up for the Ali.

Nasher.

Sorry NAsher but you have used the pick from the reverse cover of the book ( I wont tell the Publisher or the copyright owner) and its NOT the same canoe as YOURS! the front cover is the same as yours but NOT this pic.. suggest delete pic note the hatch diffrence etc.

[kewdos]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Stuart, thanks very much for the offer, however that sounds as though it will be total overkill for a very lightweight boat.
I'll see if I can get something a bit lighter first as I am going to have to tow it to and from Bourne End and to and from Falmouth a couple of times mostly at my own expense.
I'll let you know.

Tim
I've seen the one in 'your' museum and at the moment I believe its a Mk6.
Quentin who's written the book has been in to see it on my advise, but until his book is out he's keeping a lot of his very hard earned info to himself.
He has a Mk6 himself in similar condition to yours.
I'll be getting a copy of the book soon, so will pop over and run through it with you.
Yours is much more complete than mine, having its sail etc. My centre section is exactly the same, however the bow section has a much higher lift at the very Bow. The stern section is completly different as it has an engine compartment and prop tube etc. As mentioned we believe mine is the only one of its kind left.

For those who don't know what we're talking about see below.
The historic image is of a Mk6 during the Burma campaign, and the colour images are of mine @10 years ago just before I dry stored it in my mothers garage. I actually brought it 22yrs ago for £10 from a scrap man who didn't have the heart to cut it up for the Ali.

Nasher.

Now I have read your ENTIRE mail .. the B&W is still NOT a MARK 6 and the photo was taken in Ceylon and its an earleir MArk than Mk 6 , sorry.

[kewdos]

Originally Posted by malthouse

Do I recall they were deployed from Subs before inflatables came of age?

Re your comment....Buy the book , dont guess .. too much confusion and misinformation.

[kewdos]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Little hope of that, its bound to be something oddball, although I don't suppose there could have been too many options available towards the end of WWII when it would have been developed.

The NMM will try to identify and help try to locate an example of whatever engine is required.
Its also going onto their register of historically important small ships.

Nasher

all the info is in the BOOK!

[kewdos]

Originally Posted by doggypaddle

or both, ie water cooled exhaust air cooled barrels.

That is a VERY good question... I wont spoil it for you but the chapter is a very good story and it took a lot to work it all out... your'll understand when its read.

BUT well done! gold star

[kewdos]

Originally Posted by doggypaddle

Dont forget most of the older stationary and marine engine of this size and era had the flywheel on the non power take off end of the engine,
looking at the propshaft angle and projecting forwards the length of an engine and coupling, there is probably a bit more room at the front of the engine?
If it was an aircooled engine the flywheel would need to be ~8" dia at least to shift any air, assuming a centrifugal fan as in most aircooled engines this size.

Electric power would be nice

Getting WARM

[kewdos]

December 2008 Book Launch of

The COCKLESHELL CANOES


Representing a very significant part of British Military Maritime history never previously written about.


Even after nearly 70 years the memory and celebration of the 'Cockleshell Heroes' effort still remain just with this one legendary wartime exploit. Both film and book were produced in commemoration.
Ten highly trained commandos undertook 'The Frankton Raid' on Bordeaux Harbour in occupied France during December 1942 in five extremely specialised military canoes.

Sir Winston Churchill believed this mission shortened the war by six months. Admiral the Earl Mountbatten deemed it as the "most courageous and imaginative of all the raids ever carried out by the men of Combined Operations Commands".

Now the entire world is introduced to an entirely NEW section of hitherto unknown British Military Maritime History with

'The COCKLESHELL CANOES'

The publication is a truly fascinating and 'gripping tale'. It also contains the complete history and development of the British Military Canoe of World War 2. AT LEAST 95% OF THE INFORMATION WITHIN HAS NOT BEEN REVEALED BEFORE NOW




The COCKLESHELL CANOES
British Military Canoes of World War 2

320 Pages with 134 Photographs. Size 248x172mm

ISBN 978-1-84868-065-4

Filled with many rare and unpublished photographs, this publication contains a gripping tale. A tale about a most unusual mode of warfare wrapped up within a very human story. This remarkable account represents the first and only definitive work of the entire history and development of British military canoes during World War Two. Much of the 'Most Secret' information within has never been revealed before.

The story is a celebration of those individuals, some of great fame like 'Blondie' Hasler and the other Cockleshell heroes, who have become part of canoe history. Many others will have their previously unsung roles acknowledged through this work, a weaving of real-life testimonies within the stories of the commanders, inventors and designers. It tells of the epic journey of progress that canoe development took from Cornwall, all along the Southern English Coast and beyond, even to the tropical island of Ceylon.

Thousands of various marks of canoe were sent worldwide and used operationally, this represents an entirely new facet of maritime military history and shows how clandestine warfare was conducted by the various Special Forces during World War Two, including the S.O.E. This 'Most Secret' endeavour used the code name 'Cockle' for the canoes. One such 'Cockle' was equally at ease below the water as it was above; the designer even suggested that it could be used as a carrier for an Atomic bomb.

Quite possibly it represents the most comprehensive study ever undertaken in the field of the twentieth-century naval 'small boats'. Deserving the description 'indispensable', it tells the dramatic story of the 'Cockles' and how these tiny canoes helped the Allied cause on almost every front.

BEST CHAPTERS ? - 'The Marks Two's' and 'The Canoe that was made to Sink'.

Throughout, so much new information is given that it will be heralded as a most important piece of writing in maritime history; at least since the 1950's. It will be the future reference book of these craft.

It has been possible to arrange with The National Maritime Museum at Falmouth, an Exhibition from December 08 through to February 09, showing THREE exceptionally rare canoes in support of the book launch. This represents the largest collection of British Military Canoes ever to be exhibited at one venue.

The first canoe is a Mark 2, only one of SIX known of in the WORLD, and is the same canoe type as used on the 1942 Frankton raid.
Made with a canvas hull and 1/8th inch plywood with a flat bottom, it is in excellent working condition. It is 15ft in length and reduces in high to 6.5 inches in less than 30 seconds; horizontally!

The other is an 18ft canoe which comes in three bulk headed detachable sections along with outriggers (packed with pin-pong balls). This two-man sailing and paddling canoe has bow (5ft), stern (5ft) and centre (8ft) sections. This canoe is made from ALUMINIUM.
(see Mk 7 chapter: Birmabright and Chewing Gum).

The other very special canoe is extremely significant as it has never been seen since WW2.

Amazingly these two latter canoes were produced to aircraft standard for the tropics and made by highly skilled UK aircraft engineers.

These provide a rare opportunity that has not been available before.


AREAS WHICH THIS PUBLICATION CONCERNS



Falmouth, Praa Sands, Teignmouth, Hayling Island, Poole, Gosport, Southampton, Portsmouth and Southsea, Isle of Wight, Essex and Warwickshire area.

In a nutshell........ hope you enjoy, questions on a postcard.