Yet again, another vote for madness.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jono

Don't make the error of mistaking subservience for respect...


..and did we always have "good relations" with "The Middle East" ? Examples off the top of my head are Aden.. then what about Iran? I don’t think you can say we always had “good relations”. What we had was/is relations with people who needed us and whom we needed….

Having LIVED in Aden I happen to know what I am talking about!!! I have also lived in Saudi and most of the UAE - also worked there for a time. My father and my Uncle were still out there until very recently and I still keep in touch with lots of expats.

In Aden - as in Northen Ireland - it was a small minority causing all the trouble. We lived there AFTER they had their independence - so we had no real say so on how things were run - and yet the people treated us amazingly well.

We never had to lock our doors and felt totally safe - until the Russians came. I was only a very young child when all this happened but I do remember the Arab people being very friendly. The local Arabs were terrified when the last Brits were leaving as they would have to cope with the russians alone.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

One of these reasons is the blind support the USA gives Israel. Another is the sheer arrogance with which they treat other people.

Well "perfideous Albion" let them down quite a bit........Thank god for the US
The UK were too intent of pleasing the Arabs and they came up with solutions that were - to say the least un-acceptable for all parties- look at what they did to Larwence- the only guy around then who could have come up with an acceptable Middle East solution.

Anyway whats the betting that the Israelies 'settle" the irananians before you can say "shalom"--- that's when it starts to get interesting and a bible prophecy will be fulfilled...... Kindly explain with your Arab leanings ,why the president of Iran did'nt seem to mince his words

jonathan

Will the Israelies "settle" Iran the same way the USA has "settled" Iraq??? Doesn't seem very settled to me!!!

Maybe the Yanks have forgotten one of the Jew's greatest stories - David and Goliath. It is all very well being all high and mighty - but as soon as your back is turned someone will stab you in it - surely it is better to try not to wind people up the wrong way than show them how strong you are all the time?

Anyway the battle between the Jews and Arabs - who after all are really the same people - has been going on since biblical times - why allow ourselves to be dragged into it by the USA???

[Jono]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Having LIVED in Aden I happen to know what I am talking about!!!

So you base your views on childish memories of happy, smiling Arabs...

Originally Posted by codprawn

I was only a very young child when all this happened but I do remember the Arab people being very friendly.

Originally Posted by codprawn

The local Arabs were terrified when the last Brits were leaving as they would have to cope with the russians alone.

That's dependence.. not respect.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jono

So you base your views on childish memories of happy, smiling Arabs...






That's dependence.. not respect.

We were treated with respects as were all the other British families living there - we were invited to local Arab's homes and made to feel REALLY wellcom. There is a yemeni community living in Swansea and I still keep in touch with many of them.

It DOES make you wonder if the Indians and Pakistanis or Arabs etc hated Britain so much after our terrible occupation how come so many of them come to live here???

If you actually speak to older Indians or Pakistanis or Yeminis many of them remember British rule with fondness - often we treated them a lot better than their own people did.

Yes I DO base my views on how I was treated as a child - and also how my parents were treated - seems fair enough to me!!!

[Jono]

Codders, I'm only baiting you 'cause it amuses me to try and follow your logic, as you may have gathered. I admit it is childish and will try to stop it...but you do promote a reaction...

"It DOES make you wonder if the Indians and Pakistanis or Arabs etc hated Britain so much after our terrible occupation how come so many of them come to live here???"

[Nate]

The 9/11 attacks were largely carried out by Saudi nationals, funded by Saudis and led by a Saudi - Osama Bin Laden. Under his nominal leadership Al Qaeda had carried out several attacks on the US prior to the 9/11 one, including the previous WTC bombing, killing US servicemen in Somalia, bombing US embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam and attacking the USS Cole in Yemen.

Osama Bin Laden represents a fanatic anti-US sentiment among Saudis and has provided a focus for the wide spread Arab discontent with America, specifically regarding continued US support for Israel. This antipathy has acted against progressive minded regimes and favoured the more extreme xenophobic approach of islamic fundamentalism. Time Magazine recognised the beginning of this anti US sentiment in 1979 when Iran overthrew the Shah and welcomed the return of the Ayatollah Khomeini - "We have witnessed the setting of the fuse on the Islamic time bomb".

Saudi Arabia currently is the largest single supplier of oil to the US. The internal situation within Saudi is very fragile, and the (relatively pro US) Royal family's hold on the country may best be regarded as tenuous. Should the Saudi Royal family be overthrown it is unlikely that the fundamentalists who sieze power will continue to provide oil to the US.

Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the Middle East. Inventing a cause for invasion was the easiest way of removing Saddam and liberating the oil. Unfortunately this has now meant that Iraq is a breeding ground for fundamentalism and, subsequently, support for Al Qaeda - something which would never have been allowed to happen under Saddam. Irrespective of this the US is now in control of significant supplies of oil, unthreatened by any regime change that might occur in Saudi.

The whole WMD thing was bogus, and the subsequent claim that "regime change" was necessary to bring peace and tranquility to Iraq is visibly ridiculous.

[eupa]

Will the Israelies "settle" Iran the same way the USA has "settled" Iraq??? Doesn't seem very settled to me!!!

No way- it wont be messy, the next day Iran wont exist anymore . Period.

Jonathan

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

Will the Israelies "settle" Iran the same way the USA has "settled" Iraq??? Doesn't seem very settled to me!!!

No way- it wont be messy, the next day Iran wont exist anymore . Period.

Jonathan

And how exactly do you think they will do this? Nuclear weapons? I don't think even the Israelis are that mad and if they are what the hell are people supporting them for?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Nate

Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the Middle East. Inventing a cause for invasion was the easiest way of removing Saddam and liberating the oil. Unfortunately this has now meant that Iraq is a breeding ground for fundamentalism and, subsequently, support for Al Qaeda - something which would never have been allowed to happen under Saddam. Irrespective of this the US is now in control of significant supplies of oil, unthreatened by any regime change that might occur in Saudi.

The whole WMD thing was bogus, and the subsequent claim that "regime change" was necessary to bring peace and tranquility to Iraq is visibly ridiculous.

Well described but to be honest I really don't think it was becuase of oil - IF it was the Yanks are even more stupid than I thought!!!

Before the 2nd Gulf war oil prices were at the lowest ever - down to about $14 a barrell - so cheap many oil fields weren't economically viable.

Now due to the fighting in Iraq etc the price of oil is up to $65 a barrell. Who does this hurt the most? The Yanks!!! Who benefits the most? The Arabs and the Russians!!!

IF it was about oil they have shot themselves in the foot somewhat!!! I honestly think it was all about trying to save face after Sept 11th. Recent opinion polls suggest that the majority of Yanks thing the Iraq war was because of sept 11th - to them an Ayrab is an Ayrab - they just don't understand the difference!!!

[eupa]

And how exactly do you think they will do this? Nuclear weapons? I don't think even the Israelis are that mad and if they are what the hell are people supporting them for?

You bet !!!!. They have basically three options:

1. air strike the nuclear facilities
2. all out invasion a la the 6 day war
3. Tactical nuclear take out

If they think the Jewish state is under threat ( "wiped off the map")- they will go for option 3 without hesitation- and it would happen soon while
they still have an advanatge.

Jonathan

[eupa]

Now due to the fighting in Iraq etc the price of oil is up to $65 a barrell

No it aint
There is very little oil coming out of Iraq momentarily- the high price is due to
demand- especialy from China and India. China- it seems is becoming the world's workshop and is creating a huge demand for raw- materials,

Did you realize that with all the construction going on in China- they are consuming 50% of the current cement world production????????

If I were you,- use your suk 225 while you can still afford it!!!!!!!!!! I have the same tanks as you -i,e 460- 470 liters. thats at least 300 quid every time you fill up!!!!!!/ even sacked the cleaning lady/ and limited my wife to one hairdresser visit every 6 months./ Cats gone . Saved some 40 liters fuelequivalent per week so far. But need to save more....

Jonathan

[Jimbob]

How strange, we started off with a fine on Windermere and then a forum WW3. Mr Cod and Jono did you conclude?

I am just sorry they put a ban on, my first trip on my first rib was there, it was fantastic and we always looked forward to it, more that you can imagine, however the anal retentive have spoilt it.

Well I'm off for a beer, i hope if you are ribbing you have a great time, if you are drinking have a great time, if you are doing nothing have a great time

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

Now due to the fighting in Iraq etc the price of oil is up to $65 a barrell

No it aint
There is very little oil coming out of Iraq momentarily- the high price is due to
demand- especialy from China and India. China- it seems is becoming the world's workshop and is creating a huge demand for raw- materials,

Did you realize that with all the construction going on in China- they are consuming 50% of the current cement world production????????

If I were you,- use your suk 225 while you can still afford it!!!!!!!!!! I have the same tanks as you -i,e 460- 470 liters. thats at least 300 quid every time you fill up!!!!!!/ even sacked the cleaning lady/ and limited my wife to one hairdresser visit every 6 months./ Cats gone . Saved some 40 liters fuelequivalent per week so far. But need to save more....

Jonathan

Don't you think that the very fact there is "very little oil coming out of iraq" has something to do with the fact supply can't meet demand???

DOH!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jimbob

How strange, we started off with a fine on Windermere and then a forum WW3. Mr Cod and Jono did you conclude?

I am just sorry they put a ban on, my first trip on my first rib was there, it was fantastic and we always looked forward to it, more that you can imagine, however the anal retentive have spoilt it.

Well I'm off for a beer, i hope if you are ribbing you have a great time, if you are drinking have a great time, if you are doing nothing have a great time

My fault this time - sorry!!!

And now to turn this thread around COMPLETELY again.....well sort of....

I have to be honest that very word "BAN" makes my blood boil - we tend to hear it a lot with New Labour in power!!!

The "anal retentives" as you put it spoil everything!!!

What do people think of the latest BAN??? That of smoking in public places etc?

I don't smoke and never have - I think it is a disgusting selfish habit and I am actually allergic to the smoke - after prolonged exposure I actually start to suffer nosebleeds etc.

BUT I still don't agree with the BAN. Basically I know that if I go to a pub or club I will have to put up with people smoking - it is my choice wether or not I go to that pub or club.

Now I realise that there are more non smokers than smokers these days but what about in a pub or club environment? I would say prob 75% of the people there are smoking.

I know loads of people who will now not go out on a weekend and will buy cans to drink at home so it will definitely hurt business.

In Swansea they tried a non smoking pub/bar - it didn't last long!!!

About the only thing that DOES please me is that loads of these idiots who are about to be banned voted for Blair and the Welsh assembly in the first place - good enough for them!!!

[gavin]

I Am Surprised Jk Has Allowed This Rubbish To Take Up Precious Server Space,I Thought Threads Like This Were Banned, Discouraged Whatever You Like,
It Started Off About A Speeding Incident On Windemere

Instead It Has Been Inflamatory To Jews, Arabs, The Irish, Reference Has Been Made To The IRA, Paddys, With Shotguns, Necular Weapons, Its Offensive To Labour,Tony Blair ,George Bush

The Middle East Has Been Dragged Into It, Sept 11,War, Wmd,
Oil Price, Gulf War,firearms The Police Carry And Now The Smoking Ban

Am I Missing Something
Did I Click A Link Somewhere


Or Is This All Relavant To Windemeres Speed Restrictions

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by gavin

I Am Surprised Jk Has Allowed This Rubbish To Take Up Precious Server Space,I Thought Threads Like This Were Banned, Discouraged Whatever You Like,
It Started Off About A Speeding Incident On Windemere

Instead It Has Been Inflamatory To Jews, Arabs, The Irish, Reference Has Been Made To The IRA, Paddys, With Shotguns, Necular Weapons, Its Offensive To Labour,Tony Blair ,George Bush

The Middle East Has Been Dragged Into It, Sept 11,War, Wmd,
Oil Price, Gulf War,firearms The Police Carry And Now The Smoking Ban

Am I Missing Something
Did I Click A Link Somewhere


Or Is This All Relavant To Windemeres Speed Restrictions

I don't recall having said anything offensive about the Jews, Arabs or the Irish. I WAS offensive about the IRA and always will be!!!.

As far as "Offensive To Labour,Tony Blair ,George Bush" - well maybe the truth does hurt!!!

When I saw a post from you I thought it would be about the last post I made - re smoking in public places - hasn't a similar ban been introduced in Eire???

[gavin]

The Irish Govt has decided that no individual in the workplace ,with the exceptions of prisons and mental hospitals, should be forced to breathe someone elses smoke
Designed particularly for bar staff and pub goers, who have no say in if they breathe in smoke or not.
Now they dont, workplaces include company cars,vans taxis ,busses,shops restaurants and pubs/bars
building sites

breach of this is a 3000 euro fine

[The Jackeens]

Originally Posted by Jono

Before you leap in, PD, I know it’s a split infinitive…

(Ah you can't just start to cheekily write something like that and to not fully explain it to us Jono )

Interesting prog. on TV recently about group dynamics or 'groupthink' (although I don't think they used exactly that term) giving rise to the formation of small groups where members prioritise certain behaviour and agreements in order to feel they 'belong' to the group.

However group members as studied seem to sacrifice personal critical abilities (i.e. don't 'speak out against' things they would have perhaps seen as wrong if operating as individuals).

The chilling part of this (when a group ends up thinking and acting wrongly and where critical thinking is not welcomed) is that the group can exist and achieve certain 'bad' things without any external support.

(BTW I don't think we hear enough about all the great work the Police Force do quietly and behind the scenes for very little thanks. )

Oh yeah, 'tis a RIB Forum. Have they banned smoking on Redbays yet Gav. ?

missus

[eupa]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Don't you think that the very fact there is "very little oil coming out of iraq" has something to do with the fact supply can't meet demand???

DOH!!!

Get it right Codders -there were two hurricans which knocked out 25-30%
refinng capacity in Texas+ Gulf of Mexico temporarily. Iraq hasnt as yet contributed much to the supply/demand equation - even prior 2003..

And Gavin - this is much more interesting than Jap 4x4.s vs LandRovers-- anyway, you dont have to read it!!!!!!. - this is the "funny" season for Ribbing - most are out of the water ---- ah , wait a minute .. there is one coming over from the Channel Islands shortly -- the most eagerly awaited event of the decade....... I will be positioning myself outside Pool harbour with an army of paparazzi.. not to miss it. Have already sold the rights to 'hello" mag. John Kennet is laying on a reception.....

jonathan well its Saturday morning what do you expect!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

Get it right Codders -there were two hurricans which knocked out 25-30%
refinng capacity in Texas+ Gulf of Mexico temporarily. Iraq hasnt as yet contributed much to the supply/demand equation - even prior 2003..

And Gavin - this is much more interesting than Jap 4x4.s vs LandRovers-- anyway, you dont have to read it!!!!!!. - this is the "funny" season for Ribbing - most are out of the water ---- ah , wait a minute .. there is one coming over from the Channel Islands shortly -- the most eagerly awaited event of the decade....... I will be positioning myself outside Pool harbour with an army of paparazzi.. not to miss it. Have already sold the rights to 'hello" mag. John Kennet is laying on a reception.....

jonathan well its Saturday morning what do you expect!!

I think you will find that the oil price started going up as a direct result of the Gulf war - it was already VERY high before the hurricanes!!!

If you will have a look at this little chart you will see that oil prices are influenced by wars more than anything else!!!

Before the 2nd gulf war Iraq accounted for 40% of OPEC oil production - and about 40% of these stocks were going to China - production is now a third of what it used to be!!!