boatmaster Licences

[hobbit555]

Why is the new system so complicated and unworkable? Has anybody who holds an old one applied for a new licence yet?

If so what Level were you in the old system and what are you now in the new system.

I am, (and several Skippers I work with)revalidating and being told lots of different things by the MCA and I am totally confused.

DAmian

[samt]

I did my boatmasters last year through the new system and it was a nightmare. Was required to do loads more stuff than if I'd done it the previous year! A lot of it wasn't even relevant to the work I do!

I can't remember the situation with renewing the licences, but I know some of the other skippers I work with had alot of trouble with the MCA loosing they're new licences and details.

[Channel Ribs]

I cannot comment first hand, but there are a couple of Scuttlebut members in a similar situation and so I have duplicated your post on there. I hope that is ok.

http://www.scuttlebut.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=56

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by hobbit555

Why is the new system so complicated and unworkable?

I think that a big part of the confusion is still because it's new and bedding in. On paper it does look complicated (but generally sensible), and my guess is that with a bit of time and experience it will fall into place.

(We've decided not to train BML until things settle down - too many unanswered questions at the moment. I appreciate you don't have that freedom to choose)

[Duck-2-Water]

Applied for my BML at the end of last year and it was a straight forward process.

[seafariskye]

The new boatmaster licence is nothing but a nightmare to go for from new - for a new skipper, you almost have to give 16 weeks of training, on a course that the MCA do not know what to actaually send you on to do it, it is complete a complete farce - they cannot tell you where to go , where to do it, and no-one has a course to offer, as no-one knows and has not been told the full syllabus, as they do not know what to offer.

It is nothing apart from complete bollocks, it make it nearly impossible for someone to do and impossible or an employer to train someone to drive a boat for them.
If this is the way to go - then allot of small boat business's are going to go under.

pete

[hobbit555]

for new entrants, apart from the time it takes to go through the process, it doesn't seem too bad.

What seems to be the problem is that the qualification being offered is a national qualification allowing holders to work any where. In reality the MCA is giving people qualifications that are restricted to the old geographical areas.

Presently I hold a boat masters license for Solent, Poole, and Weymouth. In the new system I am not able to have a tier 1 L1 license allowing operation in several areas despite me already holding several areas. Therefore new qualifications are not allowing me(and others ) to continue to operate as We have done in the past.
I have also told I will have to do an under pinning knowkedge exam.

I can see a case where as an existing License holder, I will be in a position where I might have to sign off a task record book for somebody going for a higher qualification than I hold. Seems like madness to me.

What a great paper chase world we live in!!!

[havener]

I haven't gone into this deeply, but it seems that (as per usual) this new raft of requirements isn't geared to deliver a named benefit, and doesn't address a specific problem, therefore is pretty much useless.

If the aim is to have a single, national licence for boatmen, and then remove all other requirements, it could be beneficial. Local differences could then be dealt with by local knowledge requirements for certain ports, if it can be proved by the ports that there is a compelling requirement for this on safety grounds alone. For example, I wouldn't see the argument "we have a sand bar" as compelling, as any well qualified operator would do a local area assessment anyway. We could then remove all local authority licencing and involvement which acts as a restriction on trade.

And has there been a massive number of deaths due to unqualified / poorly trained boatmen? No, didn't think so...

So all it appears to be is regulating for one goal - keeping the regulators in jobs.

[alant1]

Originally Posted by hobbit555

Why is the new system so complicated and unworkable? Has anybody who holds an old one applied for a new licence yet?

If so what Level were you in the old system and what are you now in the new system.

I am, (and several Skippers I work with)revalidating and being told lots of different things by the MCA and I am totally confused.

DAmian

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a Boatmaster Grade 1 (Solent & Poole) under old system.
Will need to renew in May.

Just got this from MCA, following my enquiry regarding its acceptability in 'Europe/inc Ireland) -

"- 'BML Tier 1' as a stand alone certificate will not be recognised
in EU waterways . Further modules and requirements are to be satisfied
before obtaining a EU Boatmaster's certificate . For details,
you may refer to the 'Annex 4 ( page 19)' of the ' MSN 1808' .
However, the assessment system for some of these competence
requirements are yet to be established ."

Confused?

[AdeccoBoatmaster]

Hi Guys,

I wonder if you could help me, I am currently seeking some experienced crew to join a temporary team on the Forth working out of Edinburgh, Scotland. I am looking for Tier 2 Boat Masters, varied experience required. If you know anyone that is looking for this type of work please do email me.

Steph.wade@adecco.co.uk

I am also looking for a permanent experienced Shipping Engineer for the same area with very competative salary. Please call for more details.

Kind Regards

Stephanie
Adecco 0131 220 7850

[alant1]

Originally Posted by hobbit555

Why is the new system so complicated and unworkable? Has anybody who holds an old one applied for a new licence yet?

If so what Level were you in the old system and what are you now in the new system.

I am, (and several Skippers I work with)revalidating and being told lots of different things by the MCA and I am totally confused.

DAmian

I have a BML (Grade1) now Tier 2, which I have renewed without problem.

However, I asked the same question as you have, getting the following reply from the MCA Examiner (yet to speak to him for clarification). No-one else at the MCA, could give any guidance, because they don't understand it either!

My second question, was with regard to 'Workboats', since most jobs seem to be based upon 200GRT (the RYA type endorsement).
"(2) What, if any, is the maximum size of workboat (GRT) (such as involved in
dredging operations) able to be operated by a holder of this 'older' BML, in
limited coastal waters?"


MCA answers as follows -
"The main difference between a renewed 'Grade' licence to a Tier 2 and a National licence is that the latter is permitted to operate in any categorised waters within the UK (excepting those stated as requiring their own local area endorsements). The Tier 2 currently exists to allow previous BML licence holders to operate within their existing areas.

In answer to your second question, it is not the size of vessel but the class of vessel that limits BML operation. BML licences are only permitted for operation on Class IV, V, VI, IX(A) & IX(A)(T) vessels, those being vessels that operate within categorised waters and do not proceed to sea (excepting the summer Class VI 3 & 15 mile rule)."

There is no and has been no limited coastal waters area for BML holders. If a vessel proceeds to sea for limited operations it will most probably be a Class VIII or VIII(A), for this type of vessel you would be required to hold a STCW master <500gt CoC."

Hope this helps - I'm still struggling!
Particularly since the MCA site has been down, so little chance to confirm Class details.

[alant1]

Originally Posted by malthouse

I cannot comment first hand, but there are a couple of Scuttlebut members in a similar situation and so I have duplicated your post on there. I hope that is ok.

http://www.scuttlebut.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=56

Get account suspended on that link.