Coding

[Jono Garton]

Hi Guys

If you had a RIB coded for 20 miles from a safe haven would you be able to use it for pleasure only to go more than 20 miles from a safe haven?

[tim griffin]

can't see any reason why if it was used for pleasure a coded rib would not be allowed to go further than its NPD ,loads of ribs go cross channel all they need is SSR and all the other relevant bits of paper , i go alot further along the coast in mine when its just me and the wife so go for it.
regards Tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Paul Glatzel]

Jono

If i understand you correctly you are asking "can you use a coded craft as a pleasure vessel to do whatever you want with?". My interpretation is that a commercial craft is only such when it has fee paying passengers on board else i believe it to be a 'normal' (albeit well kitted out ) vessel. As Tim says we all use uncoded training vessels well beyond the 3 miles NDP all the time and coded ones beyond theirs - but for pleasure.

So in short agree with tim

Paul

[Rogue Wave]

I kinda agree with Tim and Paul.

The major difference between a twenty mile code and a longer range is shelter for crew and passengers (i think). I would suggest that you talk to your insurance brokers as you may find that if you are insured commercially you may not be covered for pleasure.

but I wouldn't think twice about going out with a few buddies (if I had any)outside of the twenty mile restriction

[Pete7]

This is one of the FAQ on the MCA's web site and the answer is yes.

Pete

[tim griffin]

If i was you Jono i would check my insurance policy/ insurance broker
to see if you are covered for pleasure use as well, you should be ,depends on what type of commercial broker you went through, i checked mine after i read you post and am covered for both.
regards Tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Jono Garton]

Yes i made sure when i took my policy our Private, Pleasure, Charter & RYA Teaching for Gain

[Rogue Wave]

Hi Jono/Tim

This point about insurance interests me as I think we all kinda do the same thing and the insurance thing's been bugging me lately

I am going to use Jono G's scenario as it fits the Bill but this is no reflection on the driving ability of either Jono's (I'll do that in another post)

Jono G runs a company that does training and charter that company insures the boats they use. Presently coded prosports but soon to be Shakespeares.

Jono and Jono G have started configuring and supplying Rib packages (good luck by the way)

I guess the boats are insured if they are driven by a member of staff or skipper employed or contracted by Pro powerboats .

Say the boat was lent to Jono to go thirty miles off shore. The boats is no longer a commercial boat and therefore the driver isn't an employee ( I dunno you tell me) or the driver is an employee and the boat is operating illegally.

Just to confuse things the boat has a collision with a small rib off the coast of Ireland and somebody gets a damaged hand or unfortunately worse.
and the lawsuit is for .25meg

Who's liable Pro powerboats, Jono, Jonog ..I am presuming that the insurance company has an out here as the boat is operating illegally if the driver is an employee.

Is the answer to name drivers on the policy ( I bet they ain't at the moment)

I'll state again that this isn't me having a go at either drivers or any reflection on Pro powerboats training it's just somethig that I have been worrying about a bit lately


Over to you Porthcawl Steve . What do you think guys I know its a bit Machevellian but I think it may have just happenned to somebody else

[tim griffin]

Good one, ROGUE,
just checked my policy again
NAME OF INSURED : Griffin Marine Services
VESSEL : Solentis
now this is the bit we are on about
NAVIGATIONAL LIMITS : United Kingdom Inland and Coastal waters
6.1 LIABILITY Subject to the exceptions set out in 10 and 11 of these clauses
we will insure you and anyone in control of the vessel with your permission against liabilities incurred to third parties as a result of ownership or control of the vessel up to the amount of the Third Party Liability in the Certificate
6.2 In addition to the sum stated above we will also pay the legal costs incurred with our consent by you or any other person covered by clause 6.1 above in defending or prosecuting any legal proceedings arising out of or in connection with an event giving rise to to liabilities covered by this section 6
including proceedings before a Coroners Court and proceedings to limit liability.
6.3 We will be entitled to take over the conduct of anty legal proceedings covered under clause 6.2 in the name of any person covered under section 6 and all such persons must cooperate fully with us in the prosecution and/or defence of these proceedings.
section 10
EXCLUSIONS RELATING TO SECTION 6 LIABILITY
WE WILL NOT PAY CLAIMS FOR LIABILITY INCURRED TO:
10.1 Any person employed by you or any other person covered by section6 in connection with the vessel.
10.2 Any person on board the vessel in consideration of hire payment or reward
10.3 Any third party during an inland transit
WE WILL NOT PAY CLAIMS FOR LIABILITY INCURRED BY :
10.4 Any person in control of the vessel for any reason other than private pleasure.
11.5 PRIVATE PLEASURE
The vessel must only be used for your own private pleasure purposes or of those of anty competent person in command of the vessel with your consent
and not in consideration of any hire or reward unless we have specifically agreed in advance that the vessel may be used for other purposes and you have agreed to pay any additional premium which we require . If we agree that the vessel may be used for hire or reward the vessel must be under the supervision of a sufficiently qualified person and at all time when under way be under the command of a competent person.
CLIENTS ENDORSEMENTS
ENDORSEMENT 1
RLSS RYA TRAINING EXTENSION
SKIPPERED CHARTER EXTENSION
it is hearby agreed that clause 11.5 is extended to include Skippered charter
and RLSS and RYA Training

over to the lawyers then but if you read the extracts and if Jono's is the same as i assume it would be as its a standard document then he is ok
regards Tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Rogue Wave]

Thanks Tim I think that covers it

who are you insured with?

It looks like insurance and restrictions is definitely one for the commercial course you are thinking about

cheers

[Jono]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

....your own private pleasure purposes or of those of anty competent person in command of the vessel with your consentwww.griffmarineservices.co.uk

So, Rogue, as long as I haven't stolen the vessel.....and if I crashed into a "certain RIB", I'd not bother coming back anyway....Oh, the shame of it..

[Rogue Wave]

there is always the chance that they crashed into you but they had more witnesses/friends. This would certainly be the case with their last victim

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Thanks Tim I think that covers it

who are you insured with?

It looks like insurance and restrictions is definitely one for the commercial course you are thinking about

cheers

It will have to covered as a subject, if we do run these courses and still in the planning stage at the mo writing the syllabus .
insurance company is Pimsic very helpful and got me the best deal suitable for my needs .
regards Tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[David Hickman]

My policy says Private pleasure, and commercial use(with a long list of what I can and can't do in the "commercial" term).
I'm coded cat 3. Fine to use more than 20miles for private use.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

NAVIGATIONAL LIMITS : United Kingdom Inland and Coastal waters

So does this mean you are limited to twelve miles off shore?

This is something that came up in conversation recently and I meant to follow up -- I have a suspicion that many people will find that they are not covered for channel crossings or even going across Lyme Bay . . .

John

[Rogue Wave]

That was certainly my impression when the thirty or so Ribs accompanied Mr Bransons car accross the Channel carrying charter guests.

Paul Glatzel and my RIB were on this crossing and I don't think mine was insured for France (was yours Paul?) I think we were coded for use up to two miles away from Calais. funnily enough we had to produce our insurance documents before the event and mine didn't have nutting saying France.

I would have happily got an extension for France if asked or if I'd have thought about it doh!

[Louise]

Good point, John. We made a point of requesting an extension to UK coastal on our policy and are covered from Brest to Elbe. Whilst we feel that Elbe is more than far enough east to cover our likely cruising in that direction, we are unclear about whether we can navigate the Chenal du Four or Ouessant on the way to Brest, as they are obviously further west than Brest itself. Ah well, as we haven't made it further than Alderney yet we'll worry about that in the future!

Edit: NB. I am referring to 'pleasure' insurance only - not commercial. Apologies for butting in!

[MarkWildey]

Louise

The Brest limit is a southern limit, I think, and Chenal du Four is north of Best, just about.

If you are going that way stop at Cameret-sur-mer.

Nice village and moved other boats out of the way so we could moor up in our Rib

Cheers

Mark

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

So does this mean you are limited to twelve miles off shore?

This is something that came up in conversation recently and I meant to follow up -- I have a suspicion that many people will find that they are not covered for channel crossings or even going across Lyme Bay . . .

John

yep we use this rib for training so no need for any further extensions , we use our big humber for anything else and that is covered Brest to Elbe and coded up to 20 miles offshore.
Rougue and Pauls probably were not covered for the charter they did but they would have to check thier policies as they were working on a commercial
charter outside of the uk territorial limits, interesting point made , one worth checking out .
regards Tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Louise]

Mark,

Thanks for the info. We've visited Cameret sur Mer by car and it would definitely be a stopping off point for us if we were to go round to Brest. But then so would many other places!! (Ouessant, Molene, le Conquet...) Isn't Cameret sur Mer further south than Brest though? Or would we be covered by the '12 miles offshore' bit?