Coding Exemption for the Olympics at WPNSA

[CJL]

Learn't yesterday that WPNSA have been granted permission to operate boats commercially without coding by the MCA.

A baby version will be used instead.

Personally I think it's totally outrageous that such a dispensation is granted given the rates people are going to be paid......unfortunately not unexpected though!!!

Chris

[C2 RIBS]

Chris, can you say where you heard this and whether it can be challenged. (is it written down on a website anywhere yet from RYA/MCA) Like you I am appalled. I had shall I say a discussion with an RYA top bod recently and I talked through the issue that they dont follow coding levels when operating and get round it by paying fuel and costs but to extend this just about says it all.

The RYA member(employee) called me when I sent a letter about the coding issues posted here on Ribnet where potential changes were due and he was almost upset that we as operators would consider challenging them!. So we do all their exams and pay for coding and inspections correctly and then they drop the bar again.

[havener]

Looking forward to reading the MAIB report on the inevitable... not looking forward to the incident that will trigger it though....

[Into The Blue]

Is this the Original notice from MCA that has led to the dispensation

Newsroom - Press Releases

It reads like it might have opened the door..

"We will consider reasoned cases for specific, time-limited, equivalences to the technical requirements and operational limits of the regulations relating to Passenger Vessels although it should be stressed that such equivalences would only apply for a specified time during the Olympic and Paralympic Games."

[biffer]

most of you know i have some links with the RYA and LOCOG, i also have a unrestricted cat 3 coded rib.
i not really on the fence for this one, having coded my rib to do the sailing events only to be told i've got to drive a protector, which is skoda compared to mine, i can see the commercial operators piont of view having to jump through hoop's to get boat work from them, but you will be paid for your efforts.
on the other hand apart from the red tape actually running the olympic's should be a smaller affair than what we have been doing for the last 5 years, there won't be as many sailor's, only the best selected.
the courses where these events will be run will have safety boats, marshal boats, camera boats, food and water boats, doctor boats, committee boats, marker laying boats, press boats, etc, the likelyhood of someone getting into trouble is going to be minimal.
to code all these boats in my opinion would be a waste of money with so much other boat cover in the same area.
there is the old one about no fare paying passengers on board, actually nobodies getting paid, none of the harbormaster boats are coded, but that's for another thread eh!
another point if you do get dispensation for the olympic stuff, make sure it's still valid, the olympic's are over a year away and all these agreements usually only last a year

[Steve_B]

Originally Posted by biffer

the courses where these events will be run will have safety boats, marshal boats, camera boats, food and water boats, doctor boats, committee boats, marker laying boats, press boats, etc, the likelyhood of someone getting into trouble is going to be minimal.

But still possible. So what is the point of spending all the money to get boats coded, if a the drop of a hat, it's not needed? Could the same argument be said about Cowes Week. Yet last year and probably this year with luck, there will be officials all over the place looking for those rouge operators.
The message being sent out here, is it does not matter, for what will be the highest publicity event the UK has ever seen and giving the green light to everyone to provide commercial services to the public too, in any old bath tub they can find. It could end up being carnage amoungst all the spectator boats

[biffer]

there no comparision with cowes week, i did cowes week for a good few years, they are out day and night all over the solent, at the olympics the whole fleet will go out together, radio to the bridge with numbers on board, usually about 9o/c and they will be back all together when the racings finished, log in again and do a tally, spectator boats will be managed as well, one third of the racing will be inside the harbour and the rest the other side of the wall, accidents can always happen anywhere and at anytime.
i still don't think they should spend our money coding over 100 ribs for one event

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by biffer

on the other hand apart from the red tape actually running the olympic's should be a smaller affair than what we have been doing for the last 5 years, there won't be as many sailor's, only the best selected.
the courses where these events will be run will have safety boats, marshal boats, camera boats, food and water boats, doctor boats, committee boats, marker laying boats, press boats, etc, the likelyhood of someone getting into trouble is going to be minimal.

Then couldn't they just categorise the waters for the duration of the infrastructure being in place?

[biffer]

Originally Posted by Channel Ribs

Then couldn't they just categorise the waters for the duration of the infrastructure being in place?

i guess there will be something like that happening, i can understand where the commercial boys are coming from because i'm in that bracket, but untill you've done some of these events and see how well they are run and how much hse stuff is already in place i can't see how people can comment.
the other year i did an international event at wpnsa and there were close to 1000 sailors taking part, no problems, no hickups, no accidents.
i'm guessing at the moment on this one but the chartered spectator boats will be marshaled just the same as the coach boats, no one will hinder or get in the way of the racing in anyway

[DGR]

Originally Posted by biffer

i still don't think they should spend our money coding over 100 ribs for one event

It would be cheaper to code them than it is to buy them.

They have bought a fleet of boats to look good in a 'UK/Olympic corporate' way - if you are going to do it, then do it properly.

If you or I were to say to the MCA that we didn't need full coding to provide safety boat cover for an event for the reasons that you give above - how far do you think you'd get?

Also - who is operating the boats? RYA peeps operating under an exemption, or commercial, qualified skippers?

[Steve_B]

Talking to some of the guys from the Port of London yesterday, they are requiring all boats operating on the Thames to be coded, whatever the RYA say.

[AndrewN]

Just a question. What coding do you think a Rib laying marks needs? or taking it further what coding do you think a members boat acting as a committee boat at a club event in the Solent needs? BTW there will be no exemptions at the Olympics.. All boats will be coded where deemed necessary by the MCA, to what catagory depends on what it is doing.

[biffer]

Originally Posted by DGR

It would be cheaper to code them than it is to buy them.

They have bought a fleet of boats to look good in a 'UK/Olympic corporate' way - if you are going to do it, then do it properly.

If you or I were to say to the MCA that we didn't need full coding to provide safety boat cover for an event for the reasons that you give above - how far do you think you'd get?

Also - who is operating the boats? RYA peeps operating under an exemption, or commercial, qualified skippers?

the boats will be used by people who have given up there time freely, all will need to be at least pb2, these boats are not to be confused with the commercial boats that are plying for business and getting paid.
as for how far would i get, well you could get local authority to inspect them with nominated port, (boatman licence), but that has it's own problems in this case.
i am a commercial skipper with a coded rib, i won't be using my boat and i will be doing the olympic's for nothing and all the test events leading up to it, forgive me for being blunt but the only people moaning about this are the one trying to earn out of it

i don't know for sure but i think the new boats and engines were done on a buy back scheme or maybe donated,i think this was put out to general tender but they couldn't get enough of the right boats and people wanted paying

[biffer]

Originally Posted by 250kts

Talking to some of the guys from the Port of London yesterday, they are requiring all boats operating on the Thames to be coded, whatever the RYA say.

i don't think there is any sailing in london so i'm assuming these will be charter boats
i would take this gossip as what it is, charter boats should be coded i might be wrong on this next point, but as the rya sponsor team gbr they can only advise as to get involved may be a conflict of interests, the decission is locog's

[DGR]

Hi Biffer,

I don't particularly have a problem with the way they are running it - or who drives the boats. I just think that the RYA 'exemption' and the way it is sometimes used leaves grey areas - and it gets abused more than people think. I could see a scenario where someone with limited experience gets themselves into a situation on an exempted boat - and pays the consequences. I know that in a fleet environment this is unlikely - at the Olympics, I've no doubt that there will be someone with experience overseeing all of it anyway - but I think it's a concern at a more local level with some clubs.

On the Olympics - I assume that there will be some level of kit required - even the RYA minimum standard - or is it just a blanket exemption?

D...

[AndrewN]

Please read #12 any answer? There are a lot of people that have more experience with the minimum qualifications but lots more experience in their field of expertise than a lot of people with Commercial endorsements.Biff see's both sides and talks sense.