Commercial on line examination issue - Page 2

Doug Stormforce · 03 January 2012, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trell

Just to pick up on the above point, albeit on a slight tangent
The RYA in my view can be very single minded in certain cases they will not recognise anybody else's certification, using the example you have quoted the sea survival,......

Not quite true. They accept the Sea Fish Sea Survival and the STCW'95 Personal Survival Techniques, both are broadly similar to the RYA course. They are also happy to consider sea Survival courses from other administrations as long as they cover the same syllabus

I guess they don't accept the OPITO course because it has a different syllabus and instead of being aimed at skippers of small craft who generally face one set of risks and have to make decisions on behalf of their crew and vessel it is aimed at crew from much larger vessels that are carrying mega tonnes of highly flammable liquid or gas and have to follow a very different set of procedures. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the OPITO Offshore course but it was written with a different set of mariners in mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trell

.......which is a far more intensive course and includes fire fighting, five day initial course and then 3 days refresher every 4 years. They have you over a barrel. How long before we have to do the RYA sea survival every 2 or 3 years ?

I am not sure what your point is here, one one hand you seem to be applauding the OPITO system of insisting on a 3 day refresher every 4 yrs but then you seem to conclude that if the RYA did this it would be wrong.

Either way you can rest assured that the RYA are not planning on a Sea Survival refresher every 2 or 3 years. If they did bring in a refresher it would be as a result of MCA regulations/legislation and not their own choice.

SDGANDER · 03 January 2012, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

I guess they don't accept the OPITO course because it has a different syllabus and instead of being aimed at skippers of small craft who generally face one set of risks and have to make decisions on behalf of their crew and vessel it is aimed at crew from much larger vessels that are carrying mega tonnes of highly flammable liquid or gas and have to follow a very different set of procedures. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the OPITO Offshore course but it was written with a different set of mariners in mind.

That's kind of like saying that a full time fire fighter shouldn't be a office/factory fire marshal or a paramedic/nurse a work first aider?

Still think it is a money making exercise OR (devils advocate mode on!!!) if it has come from the MCA they have concerns that the level of candidates passing is not high enough? Otherwise I would have to do the same for the boat master on renewal, which allows a far higher number of passengers to be carried.

We were recently subject to an MCA port state inspection and trust me had there been any deficiencies in my knowledge or the crews' it would have been picked up very quickly.

SDG

Trell · 03 January 2012, 21:46

Doug,
Having done both survival course's, my point was the OPITO offshore survival course covers exactly the same sylabus as the RYA sea survival course and in a lot more detail, but the RYA would not accept it, I was informed that the only one they would accept was their own. £100 plus pounds please. The refresher adds to my point that the OPITO course is far superior, and how long will it be before the RYA decides it can make more money form bringing in the refresher.
Mark

Doug Stormforce · 03 January 2012, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trell

Doug,
Having done both survival course's, my point was the OPITO offshore survival course covers exactly the same sylabus as the RYA sea survival course and in a lot more detail, but the RYA would not accept it, I was informed that the only one they would accept was their own. £100 plus pounds please. The refresher adds to my point that the OPITO course is far superior, and how long will it be before the RYA decides it can make more money form bringing in the refresher.
Mark

Mark, I am not intimatly familiar withe the OPITO course, is this the BOSIET one?

Ive done a google search and if it is this one then the syllabus seems to be

The offshore industry
Helicopter escape training including HUET
Personal survival
TEMPSCs and rafts
Post escape first aid
Fire Fighting (basic extinguishers, smoke hoods and self rescue)
Permit to work systems
Emergency Breathing Systems (EBS)

While this might appear more thorough than the RYA one it is actually different. Much of this is not relevant for skippers of small craft outside the oil and gas industry. Instead the RYA courses covers things like EPIRBs, location, types of rafts suitable for yachtsmen and small power craft, actions by the skipper prior to abandonment, mayday by VHF, types of life jackets worn on small craft (i.e. BA, 100N, 150N, 275N), firing flares and so on. Much of the course is spent educating small craft skippers and boat owners so that they can make informed decisions. Students on a RYA course are often about to purchase a life raft or new life jackets and so on. Candidates on a BOSIET course are not about to choose which kit to buy, I am guessing they will be discouraged from using flares in many situations, they will be using different craft to abandon ship from. Students on the RYA courses want to hear about the Fastnet disaster and the lessons learnt. Students on the BOSIET courses could not give a toss about the Fastnet and are working in a totally different environment using different kit and working with different people around them.

Yes there is some common ground but I guess someone has gone through the syllabus and decided there is not enough common ground.

Anyway if you approve of the refresher system then the 1 day RYA course should have been a good refresher for you.

C2 RIBS · 04 January 2012, 10:36

I have spoken at length to RYA training and these are the key points for this new exam.

The exam will go live on 2nd April 2012 but will NOT become compulsory until 1st June 2012 so you can sit the exam in this time or just renew as per the present process.

The exam will cover you for the period of the five years up to your next renewal/ re-validation and THE PLAN is to have another update version of the PPR for the renewal just covering changes and knowledge check- THIS IS NOT confirmed or written yet.

A recent pilot has been done involving schools and some associations which showed we all need to learn more

The exam will be computer based and can be sat at home having paid direct a fee of £31 to the RYA but a part(£15) of this will go to the nominated RYA school you select as your selected training school. This school should provide back up to you. In the event of someone being unhappy with computer skills then there may be an option to attend your nominated/selected RYA school to sit the on line exam so help /support can be offered BUT there is no-one who can say if an additional fee for use of the schools room, computer and staff will be needed(still being assessed/discussed)

In February 2012 a workshop of this will be released for this PPR by the RYA to schools.

In relation to over 65 years of age. The MCA demand an annual medical check to cover the commercial endorsement. There is no plan to tell skippers who are are over 65 that they need to do the PPR each year but they will need to do the exam at the next re-validation at the end of their endorsement- which seems to me to mean after a year in the first instance as the endorsement is for 1 year at a time at present (unlike younger persons who have 5 years). After sitting the exam sucessfully the PPR should cover you for 5 years and then there is a plan to have a 5 year endorsement for over 65s if they maintain their medical certificate (not in place yet)

I hope this helps others reviewing new processes- I am sure having listened at length there could be a few changes before the PPR commences.

alant1 · 22 January 2012, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

I have spoken at length to RYA training and these are the key points for this new exam.

The exam will go live on 2nd April 2012 but will NOT become compulsory until 1st June 2012 so you can sit the exam in this time or just renew as per the present process.

The exam will cover you for the period of the five years up to your next renewal/ re-validation and THE PLAN is to have another update version of the PPR for the renewal just covering changes and knowledge check- THIS IS NOT confirmed or written yet.

A recent pilot has been done involving schools and some associations which showed we all need to learn more

The exam will be computer based and can be sat at home having paid direct a fee of £31 to the RYA but a part(£15) of this will go to the nominated RYA school you select as your selected training school. This school should provide back up to you. In the event of someone being unhappy with computer skills then there may be an option to attend your nominated/selected RYA school to sit the on line exam so help /support can be offered BUT there is no-one who can say if an additional fee for use of the schools room, computer and staff will be needed(still being assessed/discussed)

In February 2012 a workshop of this will be released for this PPR by the RYA to schools.

In relation to over 65 years of age. The MCA demand an annual medical check to cover the commercial endorsement. There is no plan to tell skippers who are are over 65 that they need to do the PPR each year but they will need to do the exam at the next re-validation at the end of their endorsement- which seems to me to mean after a year in the first instance as the endorsement is for 1 year at a time at present (unlike younger persons who have 5 years). After sitting the exam sucessfully the PPR should cover you for 5 years and then there is a plan to have a 5 year endorsement for over 65s if they maintain their medical certificate (not in place yet)

I hope this helps others reviewing new processes- I am sure having listened at length there could be a few changes before the PPR commences.

Can any/all RYA Shore based establishments qualify for the £15?

My endorsement is due 2013 - is there any benefit on getting it renewed before April 2012.

Whilst MCA renew Boatmaster Licences every year for 65+, they will accept a current medical not an annual one. Since when did they require an annual for commercial endorsement of RYA tickets?