Commercial Question...

[DGR]

...on insurance... ...

Being a fairly sensible sort of bloke, I will be insuring my Ribcraft in the usual manner for messing about with boats.

However, if I were to start using my boat commercially, do I need to upgrade my current insurance to cover all eventualities, or upgrade my current insurance to cover commercial use AND get another policy to cover indemnity/3rd person liability for the commercial company etc etc etc.

Would this be a fairly standard thing, or does it depend on what you are doing with the RIB? Or does it depend on the insurance company?

Sorry if the question is a bit dumb - doing some planning and want to get it right......(especially the risk assesments/safety and the money...)

Dylan...

[Rogue Wave]

My buddy charters a Ribcraft 7.8 he uses heath Lambert and it costs him around 500 it's ahas a value of around 30k. They have just insured him that there is no cover for fast rib rides!. it covers Skippered charter, Dive charter and training boat. Bareboat cover is an extra 20 quid per day

PIC do cover skippered charter but not Bareboat

[tim griffin]

£500 thats good value im with pimsic £700 for skippered charter
and training £2000.000 public liability is required i dont do dive charter and definately not bareboat as insurance goes through the roof,their are a few threads on insurance it does pay to shop around, but make sure you tell them the proposed use of the craft and your operating area
insurance for leisure use is considerably cheaper,
tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[DGR]

Thanks guys!!

It looks like 2 policies:

(a) a policy to cover the boat and things directly related to operating it, and

(b) a separate one for the 'company' to cover any third party liability/indemnity that might arise from using the boat to do (a)!!

It looks like (a) + (b) could be expensive.

Thanks for the help/advice, will do some digging around with the various insurers.

Dylan...

[Rogue Wave]

The boat policy comes with Third party liability of up to 2 meg. You would require seprete company insurance as any company does.

If you don't intend doing Bareboat then talk to Steve at Porthcawl Insurance Consultants

[quinquarimarine]

No doubt about it that in the present litigatious atmosphere insurance is getting expensive, but more of a problem in that it can be difficult to secure.

To be belt and braces several areas require cover.

1. Vessel and machinery (read policies very carefuly as there some minor (but notable in event of claim) diff.
2. Third party to say other vessels etc.
3. PAX. Virtualy all offer 2mill cover but divide this by 12 PAX and you will find the cover is not much. Take note of the Wolf Report and it recomends a min of 6mill (as requested by most public sector bodies eg. surveyors working for councils). We have obtained 10mill cover, but very expensive.
4. Crews. ie. employers liability cover as required by law.
5. Slipway. Your passenger may be covered on the boat but even if you do not own or control the slip you may be liable as they walk down it. In fact from the moment they get our of their car to walk to the boat you could be liable.
6. Office. Wherever you are selling your product and the public enter you will require cover. If selling through a third party eg. local shop then ensure that a contract is in place to put this responsibily on the shop owner.
7. Legal. Covering all those nasty bits like investigations, employement. etc.
8. If you refit,work on your boat you may need seperate builders policy. eg. you fit an engine and its failure is the result of a major accident. Your boat insurers will look at the cause and apportioning blame even if it you in a diff. capacity. General maintenence accepted but skilled works done on your own back may be another matter. At the very least inform insurers of your intentions (and expect questions on your qualifications or verify an independant inspection).
9. And if you can swallow that lot then some cover for loss of earnings and directors/owners accident (include grumpy wives throwing pots and pans beause boats have overatken your life as you need to pay the insurance bill !!)

All of our policies cost over £15k a year. Boat side we insure with Sunderland Marine (brokers Knighthood Assurance) who are the only ones offering 10mill and a combined policy for crews and slipways. Expensive but seriously good. They are though strict on clientele following good safe practices and will pay you a annual visit to discuss and to keep an eye on things.

Most of the clients we sell boats to use Porthcawl who offer a personal service and good back up. Underwritten by Norwhich Union and very competitive.

Make sure that your boat policy has cover for environmental (pollution - 50 galls of fuel is significant in these terms) provided you apply say the MARPOL agreement.

Check speed restrictions and definitions of "rides". Look at whether it is a bespoke commercial policy or standard yacht clauses.

As a last note be very warry of any insurer offering cheap insurance as it well may be underwritten overseas and I know of some sad endings in such cases.


cheers

John

[DGR]

Thanks for the advice - I will be V. careful, and check ALL the print (not just the small stuff).

Best Regards,

Dylan...

[Ian]

Euromarine <£600 for my package. Includes private, training and commercial. Commercial includes skippered charter and rib trips.
I searched for weeks and this was the best complete policy I found. The insurer is Norwich Union, so UK based as well.

[Tony Barber]

Hi,

Is Euromarine via Porthcawl IC? And is it U/W by NU?

[tim griffin]

Yes

i am with Porthcawl and received the Docs through and Underwritten by Norwich Union

[Tony Barber]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Yes

i am with Porthcawl and received the Docs through and Underwritten by Norwich Union

Thanks Tim

[DGR]

I've spoken to Steve at PIC - and to cover skippered charter etc is going to cost approx an additional £190 over and above my existing policy (NU).

I was expecting it to be more...



D...

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

My buddy charters a Ribcraft 7.8 he uses heath Lambert and it costs him around 500 it's ahas a value of around 30k. They have just insured him that there is no cover for fast rib rides!. it covers Skippered charter, Dive charter and training boat. Bareboat cover is an extra 20 quid per day

PIC do cover skippered charter but not Bareboat

What is the difference between fast rib rides and skippered charter??? Assuming the charter will also be at high speed!!!

Couldn't one of the passengers be the charterer and leave it to the others to split the bill???

[tim griffin]

Boat speed below 35 knots or they won't insure you for rib rides, how fast will your new rib go Codprawn

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Boat speed below 35 knots or they won't insure you for rib rides, how fast will your new rib go Codprawn

Is that in all cases or just with some insurers???

Don't know how fast mine will go but probably about 35kts with load of pax on board!!!

[tim griffin]

[QUOTE=codprawn]

Don't know how fast mine will go but probably about 35kts with load of pax on board!!! [/QUOTE

So you are going to get it coded and what about yourself

[quinquarimarine]

[QUOTE=tim griffin]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Don't know how fast mine will go but probably about 35kts with load of pax on board!!! [/QUOTE

So you are going to get it coded and what about yourself

Tim

Not a question of how fast the boat will go but more of a case of maintaining that max speed under normal operating conditions. Exactly the same as a car whereby the max speed is well in excess of limits.

Agreed that there are no open water statutory limits for vessles ( excepting the High Speed Craft regs for pax vessels) but the insurers can stipulate max regardles of regs (if less than the reg).

Thus with our vessels having operating speeds of 50knots plus the key is to ensuring that operating speed is maintained as per policy. The advantage, like a car, of the increased power (and resultant speed) is acceleration which can be contrued as helpful in an emergency situation or as dangerous to the novice !

Of course there are no speed cameras at sea and we could also spend a long time defining speed ( over the ground etc etc) but the point to remember that when you get close to 40knots the risk of hurting someone badly in a MOB situation increases exponentialy ie. if you drop a pax over the side and they suffer major water impact trauma then I guess your speed will be questioned.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

[codprawn]

[QUOTE=tim griffin]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Don't know how fast mine will go but probably about 35kts with load of pax on board!!! [/QUOTE

So you are going to get it coded and what about yourself

That is the ultimate aim but not really interested in pax carrying - more for film work etc for mate's production company.

[tim griffin]

Yep John

I agree , thats why we have a max speed of 35 knots which is more than fast enough for a rib ride if the conditions allow .