Current Day Rates

[s.tree]

Hi all. Just spend the last few hrs reading through all the old posts from when this section started.

So, as per title, what are the current day rates for skippers for the following:

wind farm offshore
tug inland/costal
day charters
deliveries

The last time someone asked was back in 2008 and with inflation etc Im assuming they have gone up.

Im just about to finish YM and will start applying soon through contact that I've already made and dont want to under charge for my time.

Thanks for all the replies and as always, any advice and feedback always welcomed

Stephen

[steadyeddie]

you"ll find the employer will tell YOU the current rate not vice versa ! set yourself a target what you think your worth ,take into account travel ,accommodation what your leave pattern is ie 2/2 ,2/1 etc , £150 a day sounds ok but if theres no leave pay or digs or travel it works out less than the minimum wage !!!

[s.tree]

Originally Posted by steadyeddie

you"ll find the employer will tell YOU the current rate not vice versa ! set yourself a target what you think your worth ,take into account travel ,accommodation what your leave pattern is ie 2/2 ,2/1 etc , £150 a day sounds ok but if theres no leave pay or digs or travel it works out less than the minimum wage !!!

Thanks for that. I realise that they tell me how much the pay is but I didnt want to be sold short being newly qualified. As in the diving industry that I've worked in, employers will try and get away with 'will gain valuable experience but no pay' for new instructors.

Thanks and keep the replies coming

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by steadyeddie

.......£150 a day sounds ok but if theres no leave pay or digs or travel it works out less than the minimum wage !!!

It is really not very helpful to the work force or to employers to make such an inaccurate statement

Minimum wage is £6.08/hr

If you were earning £150 a day and you worked 24 hours a day you are still being paid more than minimum wage.

If you worked 12 hours a day at this rate you would be earning twice the minimum wage

If you were on a 8 hour day then three times the minimum wage.

You don't really have to do any particularly complicated sums to see that even allowing for some holiday pay someone on more than twice the minimum wage would still be earning well in excess of the minimum wage.

Minimum wage has no bearing on travel, we all have to pay to get to work regardless of what we earn.

Put it in to perspective. If you worked a 5 day week at £150 a year and had 28 days off, you would be taking home nearly £35,000 a year before tax- some how i think this is considerably more than the minimum wage.


The truth of the matter is a newly qualified Yachtmaster earning £150 a day should be very happy. Day charters generally pay considerably less than this and delivery work is very competitive and often less.

Commercial world generally pays more than the leisure world and has a totally different working environment.

My advise would be to focus the next 12 months on experience, I am not saying work for free but it would be naive to think an employer is keen to let a newly qualified skipper look after his customers and or his craft.

[s.tree]

Thanks for the reply. I hear what your saying about working for the next 12 months to get some experience, what I didnt say was that I have been skippering day charters and dive boats in the Caribbean since 2006 and have racked up alot of miles and hours (all now logged). Dealing with customers and giving them the experience is whats its all about over there as the better time they had, the more they tipped and the more we earned as a result.
Im looking at getting more into the commercial side rather that the leisure side as I can do the leisure over seas in much better weather and better pay that what I've seen advertised.

Thanks again for the heads up on things and keep the posts coming

[Poly]

Originally Posted by s.tree

The last time someone asked was back in 2008 and with inflation etc Im assuming they have gone up.

I'd be surprised if they had, freelance rates in most industries haven't really changed in that time (economic climate and people made redundant starting up freelance means supply and demand is in the "buyers" favour). In fact some industries have seen rates FALL since the crisis hit in 2008.

[s.tree]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I'd be surprised if they had, freelance rates in most industries haven't really changed in that time (economic climate and people made redundant starting up freelance means supply and demand is in the "buyers" favour). In fact some industries have seen rates FALL since the crisis hit in 2008.

very true Polwart, very true

[steadyeddie]

you failed to take into account board and lodgings which if you were paying yourself would be £30 a day making the £150 now £120 a day which in my calculations is LESS, than the minimum wage,so take 250 days working @less £30 a day board and lodge is £7500 less than the £35000 you mention

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

It is really not very helpful to the work force or to employers to make such an inaccurate statement

Minimum wage is £6.08/hr

If you were earning £150 a day and you worked 24 hours a day you are still being paid more than minimum wage.

If you worked 12 hours a day at this rate you would be earning twice the minimum wage

If you were on a 8 hour day then three times the minimum wage.

You don't really have to do any particularly complicated sums to see that even allowing for some holiday pay someone on more than twice the minimum wage would still be earning well in excess of the minimum wage.

Minimum wage has no bearing on travel, we all have to pay to get to work regardless of what we earn.

Put it in to perspective. If you worked a 5 day week at £150 a year and had 28 days off, you would be taking home nearly £35,000 a year before tax- some how i think this is considerably more than the minimum wage.


The truth of the matter is a newly qualified Yachtmaster earning £150 a day should be very happy. Day charters generally pay considerably less than this and delivery work is very competitive and often less.

Commercial world generally pays more than the leisure world and has a totally different working environment.

My advise would be to focus the next 12 months on experience, I am not saying work for free but it would be naive to think an employer is keen to let a newly qualified skipper look after his customers and or his craft.

[Boats&Outboards]

Originally Posted by steadyeddie

you failed to take into account board and lodgings which if you were paying yourself would be £30 a day making the £150 now £120 a day which in my calculations is LESS, than the minimum wage,so take 250 days working @less £30 a day board and lodge is £7500 less than the £35000 you mention

I'm not at all up with current laws or considerations at to "the norm" in this field but if you choose to work outside of your area you should cover the cost of travel and hotels ??? Why should that be deducted from your salary thus bringing your hourly rate under the min wage ?

Granted employers may add that as a benefit but imagine if we all expected that. I used to work in a call centre as a kid on around £7 per hour, I had to travel 35 miles per day to do the job but I never expected that to be paid by them, nor for them to pay for me to stay locally. I had to decide if doing the travel was worth it for me, or look for work loser, or even move closer to the work

Surely it's the same ??? If I worked out travel etc I'd be earning under min wage back then too but I was happy to have the job. At the time

Like I said though I'm not familiar with how it all works in terms of chartering etc

Peter ~ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards

I'm not at all up with current laws or considerations at to "the norm" in this field but if you choose to work outside of your area you should cover the cost of travel and hotels ??? Why should that be deducted from your salary thus bringing your hourly rate under the min wage ?

Granted employers may add that as a benefit but imagine if we all expected that. I used to work in a call centre as a kid on around £7 per hour, I had to travel 35 miles per day to do the job but I never expected that to be paid by them, nor for them to pay for me to stay locally. I had to decide if doing the travel was worth it for me, or look for work loser, or even move closer to the work

Surely it's the same ??? If I worked out travel etc I'd be earning under min wage back then too but I was happy to have the job. At the time

Like I said though I'm not familiar with how it all works in terms of chartering etc

Peter ~ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

I work as a contractor and if someone expects me to work away from home then I would expect the rate to reflect me having to travel and sort digs out. Alternatively I would expect to be given an allowance per day to be spent on accommodation, if I decide to find cheap digs and spend the rest on drink thats my choice.

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by steadyeddie

you failed to take into account board and lodgings which if you were paying yourself would be £30 a day making the £150 now £120 a day which in my calculations is LESS, than the minimum wage,so take 250 days working @less £30 a day board and lodge is £7500 less than the £35000 you mention

Everyone has to pay for basic living expenses such as board and lodgings. If you choose to work away from your home area then your living expenses go up. Chewy may be lucky but as an employer we don't pay staff from further away any more than locals to do the same job. Why would we?

Either way your calculations are still miles out.

£120 a day on a 12 hour day is £10/hr, still way more than minimum wage (£6.08). On a 8 hr day its £15/hour and way over twice the minimum wage.

[Boats&Outboards]

Originally Posted by chewy

I work as a contractor and if someone expects me to work away from home then I would expect the rate to reflect me having to travel and sort digs out. Alternatively I would expect to be given an allowance per day to be spent on accommodation, if I decide to find cheap digs and spend the rest on drink thats my choice.

Fair enough, I don't know your sector but if the same job can be done locally without the need to pay the person for expenses then I'm sure the employer would choose that option, based on standards being the same etc.

I agree with Doug, if you want the work you will do whatever you need to in order to get it. If that means travel, paying your own way etc then that's what you got to do.

If somebody wants you on the other hand then that's a different story and they will pay what have to in order to secure your services. Supply = Demand.

Peter ~ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards

If somebody wants you on the other hand then that's a different story and they will pay what have to in order to secure your services. Supply = Demand.

Nail on the head there mate.

[steadyeddie]

in this day and age a lot ofcompanies are working time for time , thus £120 a day and no leave pay equates to £60 a day,which is less than the minimum wage, if you look at earlier posts inthe forum a company is looking for operatives at 6.08 an hour to which they were laughed at. youll be familiar with the working time directive for seafarers etc doug ,as for my maths they were ok when i passed my mca 3000 t oow !! , with 35yr seagoing exp ihave seen most things when it comes to dayrates etc

[s.tree]

I think some people may have missed the point about fair wages and pay. Im currently finishing my YM soon and dont even want to start to work out how much its cost me and just this far. Should people with specialist qualifications not be entitled to a little more than the minimum wage? I know from previous experience in the diving industry that once 1 person works for nothing or very little it devalues the entire industry and employers think they can get away with not paying their staff and fair rate for the qualifications they have had to work for and spent alot of money. How much does someone on minimum wage have to pay for their training to work in a factory or in an office or where ever? I've spoke to a few people personally about this and have set a limit on what the minimum is that I will work for. It may take me a little longer to find work but in the long run it will benifit me more and anyone else looking to get into the industry by not selling myself cheap. I think this is one of the main reasons why jobs are being advertised for people with adv power rather than yacht masters. I have been told by a very good source this is because there aren't that many yacht master unemployed at the moment with the amount of work out there at the moment and the job still needs to be done so employers are having to get people with a lesser ticket in to do the job.
Just my opinion and will welcome any thoughts on such

[Boats&Outboards]

Originally Posted by s.tree

I think some people may have missed the point about fair wages and pay. Im currently finishing my YM soon and dont even want to start to work out how much its cost me and just this far. Should people with specialist qualifications not be entitled to a little more than the minimum wage? I know from previous experience in the diving industry that once 1 person works for nothing or very little it devalues the entire industry and employers think they can get away with not paying their staff and fair rate for the qualifications they have had to work for and spent alot of money. How much does someone on minimum wage have to pay for their training to work in a factory or in an office or where ever? I've spoke to a few people personally about this and have set a limit on what the minimum is that I will work for. It may take me a little longer to find work but in the long run it will benifit me more and anyone else looking to get into the industry by not selling myself cheap. I think this is one of the main reasons why jobs are being advertised for people with adv power rather than yacht masters. I have been told by a very good source this is because there aren't that many yacht master unemployed at the moment with the amount of work out there at the moment and the job still needs to be done so employers are having to get people with a lesser ticket in to do the job.
Just my opinion and will welcome any thoughts on such

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you should be asking for more or less than the quoted figures, it's not my place to say. All I'm saying is that you should be getting a wage for what you do, not what you have to do to get there. That's my point.

In my job I travel a lot and stay at a lot of hotels overnight to buy the boats, I don't fancy my chances of getting the seller to cover those costs, I factor it into my margin. Different case but similar point. Your choosing to go work outside of your area so it's down to you to cover the cost to get there. By all means factor that into your required salary of that I have no problem. If whats offered is not enough Don't take the job

Your investing in your future and yes you should be getting a "specialist" wage for the enhanced job you are skilled for.

It's not even against you. I have the same feeling for all working environments. Like the members of parliament for example where I don't think they should be able to claim any allowance for having to buy/rent a home local to parliament etc. they choose to do the work so bloody well pay for yourself to live. That's what I feel anyway. If you don't want to do that don't do the job!!

Peter ~ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by steadyeddie

in this day and age a lot ofcompanies are working time for time , thus £120 a day and no leave pay equates to £60 a day,which is less than the minimum wage, if you look at earlier posts inthe forum a company is looking for operatives at 6.08 an hour to which they were laughed at. youll be familiar with the working time directive for seafarers etc doug ,as for my maths they were ok when i passed my mca 3000 t oow !! , with 35yr seagoing exp ihave seen most things when it comes to dayrates etc

Moving of goal posts again! Now you want to factor in a paid week off for every week you work? 8hr day at £60 a day is still above NMW by the way.

I am reasonably familiar with the WTD for seafarers but now your argument makes less sense. For the Act to apply the seafarer should be working on a seagoing ship, this means it is unlikely he is going ashore every night. If he is working on a seagoing ship then why would he be paying £30 a night board and lodgings? Did they cover this on OOW training!

Anyway as s.tree sais its not about getting min wage but a fair day's pay, or a fair package.

[steadyeddie]

the reason i mentioned the seafarers act is because there is certain "operators " are expecting men to work 12 hours and then live onboard whilst the vessel works nightshift!!, received a phone call the other day to see if i was interested in this set up and told him he was setting the industry back 20 year !!!, regarding the "paid" week off this is pretty standard procedure in the real world , as for the wtd if you work 12 hr shifts it still applies you are entitled to rest periods , think we are on diff wavelengths so will leave it at that

[tim griffin]

How much do you pay Doug
I know you charge out your Trainer/ Moderators @ £185 .
Tim

[SDGANDER]

So if a vessel operates 24/7 how would you suggest that you get around the need to live on board?

I won't go into my day rates but my current 'employer' covers my food/travel/laundry/etc in addition to my day rate but I live aboard and as skipper am obviously available 24/7.

I am freelance so if 'you' aren't paying my expenses then I m not going to work for you as I can't move every time I change employers - it just isn't possible financially or practically.

SDG