Diabetics

Jon Brooks · 06 May 2004, 16:25

anyone know of anyone with a commercial endorsment who is diabetic?
Am looking at getting mine.
They seem to be saying if you insulin dependent forget it.

I can drive an ambulance, I can drive the medical at Brands hatch, I can fly but cant get a commercial endorsment

Regards

tim griffin · 06 May 2004, 19:50

Hi Jon
sorry my friend but MCA will not let you have a commercial endorsement
if you are insulin dependant, a very good friend a yachtmaster instructor
is a diabetic and lost his and also instructors tickets appealed and was turned down , you can of course appeal it would depend on what medical evidence you can provide to say you would be a low risk and if you were succesful you may be restricted in distance from a safe haven or nominated
port of departure, it does seem crazy that you are allowed to do everything
else in life but they class diabetes as a disability, the seamans medical states
you must have no limiting disabilities , how they come to this decision is i think subject to interpretation, i wish you luck with this let me know the outcome of the appeal
regards tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

The Jackeens · 06 May 2004, 21:18

Jon
Might be worth researching the Disability Discrimination legislation (fairly recent).

You could search 'Disability Discrimination Act'.

e.g. http://www.disability.gov.uk/dda/ ...you may get good links for advice in the area.

Good luck & hope you persevere & are successful

MISSUS

David Hickman · 06 May 2004, 22:06

Jon,
Are you insulin injection dependant or do you take the tablet form? The ML5 only asks if you are injection dependant.
I will forward a copy of the ML5 to you to have a read.

David

Jon Brooks · 06 May 2004, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hickman

Jon,
Are you insulin injection dependant or do you take the tablet form? The ML5 only asks if you are injection dependant.
I will forward a copy of the ML5 to you to have a read.

David

David

Many thanks
Already had the form and yes am insulin dependant
Ah well thems the break will delve a bit deeper though

Cheers

Paul F · 06 May 2004, 22:42

Jon
Try contacting Mike at Herne Bay.He has been down this road in great depth for instructor and commercial.
Paul

Jon Brooks · 06 May 2004, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul F

Jon
Try contacting Mike at Herne Bay.He has been down this road in great depth for instructor and commercial.
Paul

Paul

Thanks for the advice, will give him a go.
Is he diabetic to?

Can't imagine why you would need it for instructors to.
I have been teaching for more years than I care to remember in medical and radio subjects

Regards

David Hickman · 07 May 2004, 08:17

That's true Jon, No medical required to be an instructor. Interesting point raised.

Rupert Bear · 08 May 2004, 00:21

I had been looking into this for the last while and the latest is that the MCA has been encouraging me to go for the medical. An ENG1 is a no-no but the ML5 is a possibility.
The crazy thing is that I go to sea and have to get special exemptions from the ENG1 to do so.
Anyway, when at the doctor for a seagoing medical a few weeks ago I specifically asked about ML5's. He contacted the MCA and they said that it wasn't an outright NO but depending on circumstances it may be passed, possibly with some restrictions to area or distance. I have been encouraged to apply, fail, then appeal the decision to see what may be decided.
I may have some advantages in that I am a recreational diver and work at sea already sometimes but will see what transpires over the next few months as I get around to it.
Basically there is no definitive answer yet. BTW I don't like being called disabled, Diabetes is not a disability but a medical condition

Jon Brooks · 08 May 2004, 05:29

Quote:

BTW I don't like being called disabled, Diabetes is not a disability but a medical condition

Spot on!!

Regards

The Jackeens · 08 May 2004, 09:01

Don't think anyone was labelled here at all. The legislation I referred to for example MAY be worth reading with relation to discrimination & employment.
I've read the other posts & don't pick up anyone being labelled ?

MISSUS

tim griffin · 08 May 2004, 11:06

I think that may have been me , re the label and i apologize if it caused offence. it seems you are saying the same as me on this Rupert re the medical
now i am classed as disabled as i have to wear a knee brace permanently
as i was injured in my last occupation and was medically retired in 1994 so i returned to teaching, when it comes to my medical i have to jump through a couple of hoops to get it , but it is not a limiting condition, just have a wobbly knee
so brace is a stabilizer,so not limited in mobility when wearing it, i use this as an example , if you can prove your disability /condition is not limiting then they have no choice but to grant you commercial endorsement, good luck with the appeal
regard tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

Paul F · 08 May 2004, 19:07

Jon
I thinkhe was not allowed to be an RYA Instructor(if passed course).Due to his current medical condition,as on course have to sign form to say medically fit and not suffering from any long term medical condition.
But check with Mike
Paul

roohairy · 08 May 2004, 22:16

Hi, just a word of encouragement, it is worth appealing medical failures! I failed the vision part of my second ENG1 with glasses 10 years ago, and appealed it on the grounds that the MCA were not testing to their required standards. This only came to light as I'd just had an eye test and didn't need glasses so looked into it, after more investigation the Dreadnougt unit at St Thomas's hospital wrote to the MCA's chief medical examiner stating that I met the requirements and this was accepted. Unofficially it did help that I was already at sea. Also I know of one other person who had to change careers for exactly the same reason, wonder how many more people have been affected?
I haven't worked on UK ships for a while now, but I understood that diabetes was being reconsidered re. ENG1 though this may be for non insulin dependant form.
Good luck!

Rupert Bear · 09 May 2004, 00:18

I can guarantee that insulin dependent diabetes is a failure for ENG1, have to jump though hoops every year to get exemption because I can't get one

Mr-d · 20 August 2004, 01:18

Wow, recap... i've just dropped into this forum thing and have had thoughts about becoming a comercial operator (Live on west coast, plenty of wildlife tourism here..)

Im a diabetic Class 1, insulin dependent...
So with current law,
I CAN take a boat out on my own (i have level 2 powerboat)
I COULD become an instructor...
I CAN NOT become an comercial operator?

So, who defines this, Health and safety executive? RYA?
If someone is about to tell me that i cant do something that i would possibly be great at, im going to go mad. Is this another case of Diabetics being rejected from things they are perfectly capable of doing?

Maybe an appeal with signature could be set up on the site.

Mr-d · 30 August 2004, 02:45

Ding Dong..... anyone home?
Thread appears kinda dead for my likes.....

Anyone?

SDGANDER · 17 September 2004, 19:33

Hate to say this but... my understanding is you are NOT allowed to drive an emergency ambulance if you re an IDDM - unless things have changed.

Believe it was down to some EU legislation.

SG

tim griffin · 17 September 2004, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr-d

Wow, recap... i've just dropped into this forum thing and have had thoughts about becoming a comercial operator (Live on west coast, plenty of wildlife tourism here..)

Im a diabetic Class 1, insulin dependent...
So with current law,
I CAN take a boat out on my own (i have level 2 powerboat)
I COULD become an instructor...
I CAN NOT become an comercial operator?

So, who defines this, Health and safety executive? RYA?

its the MCA sorry to dissapoint this thread was started a while ago and unfortunatley for you the answer is no you will not get a commercial endorsement , as i mentioned in a previous reply a good fiend of mine a RYA YACHTMASTER had his instructors tickets taken away from him , he is still fighting his case , and he keeps in regular contact with me , so if anything develops i will post it on here.
regards Tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

Mr-d · 18 September 2004, 00:09

Hi Tim,

First of all, thanks for responding (finally!)

Does anyone have a direct statment of the MCA upon which grounds they decide one can become an instructor or operator? If you ask me, this is rediculous... I dont like being treated like someone being "less" of a human being than a "normal" person.. I wanted to join the army, i can see the grounds upon why they say no, and agree with them on some grounds, but as an office job, it would be no problem..

If the MCA decides to say no, upon which grounds are they taking this choice..

Possibly, we could start an appeal against this all, as i say i do not enjoy being told that i am uncapable of doing things...

Thanks,
Daniel.

Edit: Possibly what might help is the fact that i am 18, so a younger generation... might get some things moving!