Does boat need to be coded?

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Thanks Cookee - I WILL go down the correct route but I still think it highly unlikey that every you boat you see in an advert or whatever is coded.



It saddens me that common sense is so over ridden with rules - basically it means that I could take a week long course and then be deemed SAFER than someone like Steve Curtis because I have more bits of paper than him!!! BONKERS!!!

I have put a thread up regarding what is required for the Commercial Endorsement and its quite abit more than a weeks course .

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

I have put a thread up regarding what is required for the Commercial Endorsement and its quite abit more than a weeks course .

Just found it Tim

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9643

Sorry but I STILL think someone who has been doing this sort of thing for 20 years is going to be a lot wiser than someone newly qualified.

Still I suppose it does make a good starting point.

I suppose I will also have to take some form of test/exam when I wish to take up diving again - no bits of paper but have spent about 15 years diving in the Red Sea and other such areas - obviously counts for nothing though!!!

I am NOT trying to belittle training as such - just the heavy reliance made upon it these days as the answer to all problems.

[Searider]

If someone takes some film of some jetskiers in action and then sells it and gives them some cash are they breaking the law as well???

So, are you now saying that it's only you and the boat that are going to be filmed rather than you having filming personnel on board?

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Searider

So, are you now saying that it's only you and the boat that are going to be filmed ...................

What boat Codders boat hasn’t arrived yet Well Mr Prawn when can we expect to see some photos Des

[Jimbob]

Mr Codprawn

to be a good commericially endorsed skipper you need both Courses and Time, so for you to take out a film crew is simply not a good idea, which i think you have decided. Most people resoponded to you due to the "red tape " comment.

Whilst i have been a sailer for years i decided to get into the Motor side about 5 years ago

i have done
Powerboat 1+2
Advanced
Powerboat instructor
Advanced powerboat instructor
Day skipper
Coastal skipper +exam for commercial use
VHF
First aid
Sea survival
soem work with the RNLI
Radar
Engine
Dayskipper classroom
Yatchmaster classromm

Yatchmaster +exam for commercial use

Yatchmaster instructor

8000 mile s


You will find that many other people have done the same before they "charter" - i only consider myself an average skipper, so its the full package.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Searider

If someone takes some film of some jetskiers in action and then sells it and gives them some cash are they breaking the law as well???

So, are you now saying that it's only you and the boat that are going to be filmed rather than you having filming personnel on board?

I said some MATES would be on board - not the film crew - and they won't be paid either!!!

My boat SHOULD be arriving end of June - builders were causing loads of delays but not all their fault - now the delays are my end due to work pressures etc!!!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by codprawn

.....My boat SHOULD be arriving end of June -

How many weeks has it taken
Any build photos I thought there would be a lot given your interest in photography. Des

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

How many weeks has it taken
Any build photos I thought there would be a lot given your interest in photography. Des

Got a few - keep meaning to work out how to post piccies here - not too good considering I am seriously into photography AND an IT consultant!!!

Once I start won't be able to stop!!! You have been warned!!!

And yes the boat has taken far longer than expected but due to changes in my circumstances haven't been pushing them much - until now!!!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Got a few - keep meaning to work out how to post piccies here - not too good considering I am seriously into photography AND an IT consultant!!!

Come on, who do you think you are codding IT consultant and director of computers and you cant post photo’s maybe you need a bit of training
Incidentally, I’ve been meaning to ask, are you the only cod in the village Des

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

Come on, who do you think you are codding IT consultant and director of computers and you cant post photo’s maybe you need a bit of training
Incidentally, I’ve been meaning to ask, are you the only cod in the village Des

Very good - definitely need training - in how not to be such a lazy b.......

[The Garfish]

Originally Posted by codprawn

now the delays are my end due to work pressures etc!!!

yus. o levvels cann bee verry deemandin sow eym toled.

gArf

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by The Garfish

yus. o levvels cann bee verry deemandin sow eym toled.

gArf

What are they then??? Sound like more qualifications to me - not worth the paper they written on!!!

Have you read that Tintin book yet - "Tintin and the Broken ear"??? Having said that you must have - it must have been ghost written by you!!!

[The Garfish]

wot arr yew doin upp inn de middul ov de fkin nite. wy arnt yew maikin tennts lyke eny uvver spoty fayced yoof

gArf

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by The Garfish

wot arr yew doin upp inn de middul ov de fkin nite. wy arnt yew maikin tennts lyke eny uvver spoty fayced yoof

gArf

It's called working - bah humbug how I HATE that word!!!!

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Just found it Tim

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9643

Sorry but I STILL think someone who has been doing this sort of thing for 20 years is going to be a lot wiser than someone newly qualified.

Still I suppose it does make a good starting point

I am NOT trying to belittle training as such - just the heavy reliance made upon it these days as the answer to all problems.

Are you saying that you have the experience to pass a direct entry exam .
If so why not do it . Then at least you have one tick in the box for getting a commercial endorsement. Come to the Island and i will examine you ,no charge if you pass but a charge if you fail.

[Jimbob]

codprawn

Tims offer is a good one, however if you read the requirements, unless you have them you will probably fail, i know i have done the exam twice (once for Coastal and once for Yachtmaster).

Also you will see that there is a requirement for mileage, which does generally take time, thus you comment about x years experience is true.

lets get to the chase here what training have you done, i told you what i have done. Tim and others can then give advise on a training plan instead of the subjective comments

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Thanks Cookee - I WILL go down the correct route but I still think it highly unlikey that every you boat you see in an advert or whatever is coded.

If someone takes some film of some jetskiers in action and then sells it and gives them some cash are they breaking the law as well???

It saddens me that common sense is so over ridden with rules - basically it means that I could take a week long course and then be deemed SAFER than someone like Steve Curtis because I have more bits of paper than him!!! BONKERS!!!

I see the same in the climbing world - people who have perhaps 20 yrs experience climbing in the Alps and even Himalayas not being allowed to lead some venture scouts because they aren't qualified - then people's kids are allowed to go off with some idiot who has done a 6 day course for £190.

Well sorry to contradict you, but that is completely the wrong way to talk about subjects like this - if I may say so you are missing the point entirely!

Qualifications do not guarantee that one person is safer than another, unqualified person, but when you hire someone for a job, do you look at just thier qualifications? The alternative is to deregulate everything and have a free for all! Surely you would not subscribe to that view? If joe Blogs who has meen climbing for donkeys wants to take kids, then it's only going to cost him £190 and 6 days and he can!

As far as film wirk is concerned, the "Action" or as they are called in the trade "Hero" boats do not always need to be coded, but the safety, logistics and camera boats definitely do need to be coded and fully insured for the purpose. When I wrote my reply to you I was answering your question, and not commenting on the business as a whole, so try not to make assumptions - it can lead to confusion!

By the way, if Steve Curtis can throttle a Class 1 boat (he doesn't have anything to do with the steering wheel!) to a World Championship, does that mean that he knows how to get into a life raft? Does that mean he has an up to date first aid certificate? Does that mean he knows and has practised picking up people from the water who have fallen overboard? I could go on, but I hope you've got the point by now ......... I happen to have met Steve on a number of occasions, and I suspect he might be very good at all of the above, but unless he's done the courses, then he can't prove it!

Just for the record - I agree with your last paragraph - I used to be a ski instructor and guide and it is down to the employers to insist on more than a piece of paper before handing peoples (especially children) over to a "qualified person"

[codprawn]

Cookee the point I am trying to make is that these days bits of paper seem to matter more than experience which I think is very wrong.

I am NOT claiming to be as experienced as most of you in ribbing although I have been around boats since a little kid.

What I am trying to make clear is that I don't see why it's fair that as long as I do the right courses etc etc I am considered safer than someone who has been at sea all their lives!!!

I see it all the time in the computer market - it has got to the stage where I virtually ignore a person's qualifications when they come to me for a job interview because they often aren't worth the paper they are written on. Having an MCSE or a CCNA or whatever doesn't mean much these days - so many people just go on cramming courses - when it comes to the real world they just don't have a clue.

It is similar with degrees - these days they just aren't worth anything and yet often people will get the job over someone far more experienced even though they know bugger all.

To me it is what a person can REALLY do that counts - not how many bits of paper they have!!!

[Searider]

Originally Posted by codprawn

What I am trying to make clear is that I don't see why it's fair that as long as I do the right courses etc etc I am considered safer than someone who has been at sea all their lives!!!

I see it all the time in the computer market - it has got to the stage where I virtually ignore a person's qualifications when they come to me for a job interview because they often aren't worth the paper they are written on. Having an MCSE or a CCNA or whatever doesn't mean much these days - so many people just go on cramming courses - when it comes to the real world they just don't have a clue.

To me it is what a person can REALLY do that counts - not how many bits of paper they have!!!

What happens in your industry happens with RIBs as well - If you are looking for work as a skipper most reputable companies will look at your experience and attitude in addition to the bits of paper you need to have by law. Also, if you prove not to be experienced as you thought and bend the companies boat you don't get asked back for another job.

Not bent anything yet (fingers and toes crossed and touching several pieces of wood still)

Regards

[Andy Gee]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Cookee the point I am trying to make is that these days bits of paper seem to matter more than experience which I think is very wrong.
What I am trying to make clear is that I don't see why it's fair that as long as I do the right courses etc etc I am considered safer than someone who has been at sea all their lives!!!

I see it all the time in the computer market - it has got to the stage where I virtually ignore a person's qualifications when they come to me for a job interview because they often aren't worth the paper they are written on. Having an MCSE or a CCNA or whatever doesn't mean much these days - so many people just go on cramming courses - when it comes to the real world they just don't have a clue.

To me it is what a person can REALLY do that counts - not how many bits of paper they have!!!

I used to think like that but after the Marchoness Disaster and the intoduction of Codes my views changed.
I have had the misfortune to have to go to a FAI (a diver) and the first thing that I was asked by the Procurator Fiscal was "what qualifications do you hold" the second was "and what experience do you have", been to a few Compen Claims and exactly the same questions, they look for paper sad but true.
We are as you all are aware living in a sueing society and more so now than ever its paper qualifications that courts, lawyers etc etc want to see, I wish I had 50p for every Risk Assesment, Method Statement and Competent Persons certificate that we hold......I could have a 11m by now

Like you Cod I would rather start someone with the experience, and often do, but I then have to send this person away to get their papers to prove they can do the job, some cant and fail
Andy