Does boat need to be coded?

[codprawn]

If it is going to be used for film work? ie NO fare paying passengers? What about
if you carry the camera man?

[Pete7]

From the MCA Website, as the yellow codes says, its for small commerical vessels, you must decide if you are operating commerically or not. Worth buying the Yellow book if you are thinking of going down this route.

Pete

Code Vessel Safety



Small Vessels operating commercially under the British Flag or in British waters must comply with the Merchant Shipping Regulations or an MCA Code of Practice. There are currently four codes for Small (up to 24m) Vessels.

YELLOW
The Code of Practice for the Safety of Small Commercial Motor Vessels

BLUE
The Code of Practice for the Safety of Small Commercial Sailing Vessels

BROWN
The Code of Practice for the Safety of Small Workboats and Pilot Boats

RED
The Code of Practice for the Safety of Small Vessels in Commercial Use for Sport of Pleasure operating from a Nominated Departure Point (NDP)

There is also a Code of Practice for commercially operated yachts 24m and over

[Searider]

If someone is paying you for the use of your boat then it does need to be coded. For filming the boat will be classed as a workboat. Use either the old workboat code or soon the workboat specific parts of the new code.

HTH

Duncan

Originally Posted by codprawn

If it is going to be used for film work? ie NO fare paying passengers? What about
if you carry the camera man?

[codprawn]

To complicate things further the use of the boat won't be paid for as such - only royalties from the film when it is later released!!!

[Searider]

Not sure about that. However, if you are going to have other people on your boat for which you will receive some payment - albeit at a later date - I think the safest way is to assume that it is a commercial arrangement and be coded accordingly.

Originally Posted by codprawn

To complicate things further the use of the boat won't be paid for as such - only royalties from the film when it is later released!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Searider

Not sure about that. However, if you are going to have other people on your boat for which you will receive some payment - albeit at a later date - I think the safest way is to assume that it is a commercial arrangement and be coded accordingly.

If the boat only has me an a few mates on board and a fixed camera I wonder of that will be ok??? Mainly the action shots will be taken from land/bridges/helicopter etc etc. Mates will NOT be paid!!!

[Jon Brooks]

to look at it another way.
If is all went to rat s**t would the guys/girls on the boat try and sue you?

If yes then make sure you have done it by the numbers.

If there were a MAIB investigation you want to make sure you have it 100% right.
It never pays to take the short cut.

Not saying that it will all go the way of the pear but I look at things from a worse case attitude.

Regards

[Jimbob]

One of my friend swas in the same position, not with a rib but a 34 cruiser - the only way to be safe e.g litigation is code, also the code is now harmonised for that yellow, blue....are covered in one doc, i cannot remember the ref but its on the MCA web site. MGN???. there is a tread if you need the ref.

I dont think using the comment "no paying passengers" will work as they are a film crew.

As i said my mate did a film crew - get coded - get safe

[tim griffin]

If you go down the coded route make sure the skipper is commercialy endorsed as well, or you will find you insurance is not worth a sausage. If you are receiving some Royalties even at a later date it's still payment so you are operating a commercial vessel. PLUS SIDE IS you can claim back the fuel duty on all voyages made for commercial gain but not when you use it for pleasure.
If you do not have it already ,do the Advanced powerboat ,then the sea survival course and then book you exam with a Powerboat trainer or Yachtmaster examiner Motor Cruising who is on the RYA list of examiners .

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

If you go down the coded route make sure the skipper is commercialy endorsed as well, or you will find you insurance is not worth a sausage. If you are receiving some Royalties even at a later date it's still payment so you are operating a commercial vessel. PLUS SIDE IS you can claim back the fuel duty on all voyages made for commercial gain but not when you use it for pleasure.
If you do not have it already ,do the Advanced powerboat ,then the sea survival course and then book you exam with a Powerboat trainer or Yachtmaster examiner Motor Cruising who is on the RYA list of examiners .

I will be going down this road eventually but HATE red tape!!!

Surely a boat used just for part of a film or in an advert doesn't need to be coded??

Mine will be used for a lot more than that but just wondering!!!

[quinquarimarine]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I will be going down this road eventually but HATE red tape!!!

Surely a boat used just for part of a film or in an advert doesn't need to be coded??

Mine will be used for a lot more than that but just wondering!!!

Red tape... no. A visit from a surveyor and provided the vessel is acceptable and all equipment is on board then it is a 2 hour formaility.

Of course if the equipment is not there then it will cost money and this should be accounted for in proper, decent charter fees. Secondly the equipment should be there for safe boating !

A passenger does not have to be fare paying to be clased as such. A passenger is defined as someone not normally clased as part of the ships crew on a commercial vessel. Making someone a temp. crew for the day is open to challenge as you will have to demonstrate that they are either qualified or have substantial training for the vessel.

As for a TV camera it will be defined as cargo. Cargo is any item that would not normally be considered as hand baggage for personal use. The harmonised codes permit cargo to 1000kg (subj. to vessel)

Thus the point of definition that you need to examine is not fare paying passengers but commercial. I would anticipate that this will be defined as something that is not part of the normal activity of the boat (in your case pleasure), has an element of contract (and this will be the case as you will be requested to attend on a certain day, at a location defined by an other for their purposes) and possibly reward. The reward need not be financial.

Lastly I have not met a film crew that did not ask for a copy of the vessels certificate before engaging the vessel. Whatever the activity on the day the film crew will be dictating the vessels movements and in their HSE plan will want to delegate this responsibility out to "qualified vessels and persons".

Suggest you code or seek clarification from MCA as you have ineffect put yourself on notice by asking the question and cannot mitigate ignorance.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

[codprawn]

Thanks John - will obviously have to go down that route - will pm you when I am ready - pick your brains a bit more!!!

[Pete7]

Would be cheaper for the film crew just to charter a professional skipper and coded rib wouldn't it ?

Pete

[Scary Des]

Surely the most important thing about coding a rib is to actually have one Codders when did you say your boat would be ready again Des

[Jimbob]

I would suggest its not read tape

I have spent a great deal of money and time ensuring that i have the necessary qualifications and experince. Whilst the sea on a nice/rough day may seem inviting the people you carry for either pleasure or work look to you to ensure they are safe. As example my boat is coded, but to be honest the standard (apart from the liferaft) is the standard i would get the boat to - why because my best friend (my missus) is with me.

They RYA system is good and provides a good method of becoming a safe boatman sorry boatperson (thats for louise). Dont consider it red tape, it really is not.

Here a bad example, one of my mates was doing a Coastal skipped with exam for somebody last week, the somebody who charters in greece basically failed becuase he plotted a course over the submerged barrier (Solent), he had not taken any qualification and assumed that he could pass - point is what would have happened if the boat was really in trouble - god knows.

[Louise]

Originally Posted by Jimbob

boatperson (thats for louise).

Thanks Jimbob! Sound advice there IMHO!

[Cookee]

Yes there is no doubt about it!

I am a Marine Co-ordinator in the film and TV business, one of my jobs is to do risk assessments for productions. The boat will need to be coded, and the skipper will need a commercial qualification relevant to the area they are working in, and experience to deal with the expected situations. Permissions will also have to be obtained from any harbour or local authorities that govern the areas that are being filmed.

If you have any questions at all feel free to contact me direct by PM or email - happy to help!

[ADS]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Would be cheaper for the film crew just to charter a professional skipper and coded rib wouldn't it ?

Pete

And thats just the fuel costs!
Well he was goin to put a Suzuki 225 2 stroke on it!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by ADS

And thats just the fuel costs!
Well he was goin to put a Suzuki 225 2 stroke on it!

Tell me about it!!!!

Still the engine was less than HALF the price of a new etec!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Yes there is no doubt about it!

I am a Marine Co-ordinator in the film and TV business, one of my jobs is to do risk assessments for productions. The boat will need to be coded, and the skipper will need a commercial qualification relevant to the area they are working in, and experience to deal with the expected situations. Permissions will also have to be obtained from any harbour or local authorities that govern the areas that are being filmed.

If you have any questions at all feel free to contact me direct by PM or email - happy to help!

Thanks Cookee - I WILL go down the correct route but I still think it highly unlikey that every you boat you see in an advert or whatever is coded.

If someone takes some film of some jetskiers in action and then sells it and gives them some cash are they breaking the law as well???

It saddens me that common sense is so over ridden with rules - basically it means that I could take a week long course and then be deemed SAFER than someone like Steve Curtis because I have more bits of paper than him!!! BONKERS!!!

I see the same in the climbing world - people who have perhaps 20 yrs experience climbing in the Alps and even Himalayas not being allowed to lead some venture scouts because they aren't qualified - then people's kids are allowed to go off with some idiot who has done a 6 day course for £190.