Insurance for Helms

[C2 RIBS]

Looking for some direction on insurance for helms who are self employed and work occassionally to me. They have relevant qualifications etc but I am reviewing my whole insurance format following a recent CPD day organised by another operator.

I presently have boats insured and we add the qualified helms , similar to named car drivers. But this does not cover them to work for anyone else. They can take out a personal helm insurance but the costs appear huge (£500). The new policy I am reviewing may not allow them to be listed so my question is - what options for insurance can these helms have?
One is a PB2 Instructor the other is not.

ANy ideas and thought before I change cover around Thank you

[tim griffin]

Are you saying you want to insure these named helms to drive for any one
Or just your boats ?

Your insurance company may want to have more details when you charter out your vessels to schools or companies ie corporate charter so this may change the level of cover required for each job and what endorsements they apply to your policy for said usage of your boats and what qualifications they want for people using the boats for each job type
Tim

[C2 RIBS]

Hi Tim, looking for best ideas for helms, presently when on our boats they are covered but other operators have asked for them in the past. My review of policies is from the CPD day at Hamble and looking for more cover for the business etc. RIBS will be covered in a similar level for charter and schools.

The new policy may not allow cover for named helms so I asked about what a helm cover as an individual might cost and we hit 500, so I need to see best costings before I change over as it seems unreasonable to ask helms to pay that money for part time work(i.e as and when I need additional resources)

I suppose I need to hear that there is a simpler cover option for individuals who helm the RIBs

[PeterM]

Hi Ian the £500 for a self employed skipper sounds about right , however it does get very messy as to how it works in practice.

If your boat hurts or damages someone or thing the 1st port of call would tend to be your company cover. If this pays out they (insurer) can then look to recover from a self employed skipper if it can be deemed they are liable ( this is very very hard to proove unles they have clearly done something stupid ( which I'd guess wouldl be obvious as you I am sure would have checked them out and you would know about and then not be employing them anyway).

If your bare boat chartering I'd be very very careful but usually it comes down to any skipper is covered subject to whatever your insurance policy says about quals & experience and if they have 'passengers' on as per coding.

Not sure if this is what you mean but may help in some way. Its really what I do for a job so feel free to call/PM me if you want.

Pete

[PeterM]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse40.pdf

Ian, good talking to you. For the Employers Liability side the above doc gives a fairly clear explanation.

Pete

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by PeterM

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse40.pdf

Ian, good talking to you. For the Employers Liability side the above doc gives a fairly clear explanation.

Pete

Cheers Peter, still talking to companies and FSB legal team, The BMF cannot advice on insurance due to FSA rules.
Looking at your link the is is the area that I have to consider

You may need employers’ liability insurance for someone who works for you where:
■
you deduct national insurance and income tax from the money you pay them;
■
you have the right to control where and when they work and how they do it;
■
you supply their work materials and equipment;
■
you have a right to any profit your workers make although you may choose to share this with them through commission, performance pay or shares in the company;
■
you require that person only to deliver the service and they cannot employ a substitute if they are unable to do the work; or
■
they are treated in the same way as other employees, for example, they do the same work under the same conditions as someone else you employ.

[PeterM]

Yep - the definition of an employee is so vague it really can cover pretty much everyone ! Of course it woudl be the only cover that the law says you must have !

[Rogue Wave]

I get my skippers idemnity through fastnet marine southampton john goodacre he understands the liability and they have a policy which i am sure they can tailor. Scuse caps

[Doug Stormforce]

Ian

I think firstly you should differentiate between helms and skippers- I assume here we are talking about skippers, ie someone who is given sole charge of the vessel for a given time.

As far as self employed skippers being insured goes, there is IMHO no discussion here. They are businesses in their own right, they invoice you for their work and if they don't insure themselves they are off their head. Its certainly one of our terms of contract that all self employed skippers are insured in their own right.

[tim griffin]

How are you getting on Ian any further ahead?
Tim

[C2 RIBS]

Hi Tim, and thank you Doug for updates,

Yes looks like I will change the formular to my cover to include skippers working on my boats and suitable qualified etc etc. The marine package will also cover me for own boat tuition if other boat does not cover me and also cover me personally in all areas and also cover most liablities issues as I guess you cant cover everything in the liabilty world.
It is likely I will assist my nominated helms with insurance liabilty cover but this I will arrange privately.

Peter M was a great info provider having been to training day and as usual seen possible gaps in cover issues. The BMF were not allowed to offer insurance advice from their legal provisions due to financial services act but my legal cover through FSB were also open to help and advise on liability issues. Very complicated and safe to say I probably will never understand