Looking for new pastures selling (I mean selling) RIBS

brucehawsker · 09 February 2006, 11:34

Don't know if this is the right place to write (or even rant) but my business has changed direction and I am getting out and am now going to be based solely in Lymington.

I am a highly expereinced marketer / salesman (have been known to sell white stuff to Eskimos) with 25 years expereince. I believe passionately that the rib story (why they are so much fun, so easy to learn to use safely, so safe, so relatively inexpensive) has not yet been told to the great unwashed (or do I mean washed) who have never been on a rib, in fact probably have never been on a boat smaller than a car ferry. I am talking about the guys who read T3 and Stuff, or even (horrors) the Telegraph Colour Supplement.

I have talked to a couple or three rib manufacturers but so far no one has caught the vision. Everyone is focussed on selling (if they sell at all rather than waiting for orders to come to them) through the traditional channels - LBS, SBS, RIBEX - and the trade press (RIB Intl). That way they are likely to miss an affluent and not very expereinced and wealthy wall of orders from the really general public.

Also they are focussed on selling bespoke boats - all are effectively one offs - rather than TELLING the punter what he can have - and there must be higher margin in the latter route.

Does anyone have any ideas who I should approach?

Cheers

Bruce

donutsina911 · 09 February 2006, 11:58

What is it you're after job wise - you say you have a sales background but the approach you're advocating is centred around PR rather than a direct sales model and few manufacturers have the budget to run an ongoing retainer..

On the other hand, if you work the other way round and can sell the RIB "story" to a features editor or assistant at a national or lifestyle publication then this would be my recommendation. Approach them with an interesting angle and the promise of day's corporate jolly on a plush rib and see how you get on. Every opportunity you generate can potentially be sold on to a suitable manufacturer for whatever it's worth to them...eg, I'm sure if Scorpion had the chance to get a full page feature in a Sun Times supplement for a fee of say £1000 to you, they'd jump at the chance (rather than a £10,000 advert bill)

If you need a database of national / international publications accross all markets together with appropriate contacts, let me know as we subscribe to a web service called media disk that enables you to access all this good stuff....

Hugh Jardon · 09 February 2006, 15:24

i rather suspect a lot of rib manufacturers have the order books reasonably full enough which means they are not really after creating more demand for their products as staffing up and gearing up for more production has its risks. they have probably built their business from a small business and are not too keen on growing too large and are struggeling to meet current demand!

just my observation in the market

Cookee · 09 February 2006, 17:19

We would be happy to talk to you - I don't mind how long my waiting list is!

brucehawsker · 09 February 2006, 17:25

Hugh,

I think you are absolutely right. This is what we used to call a 'lifestyle' business. They make enough to pay the bills and indulge their hobby. But the idea of going ' professional' and mass producing product to make a fortune, and the gearing up which that implies, is apparently unattractive.

donutsina,

I am advocating the establishment and exploitation of an idea and then secondarily a brand. But to the currently not churched market out there.

I had not thought of freelancing and then onselling the opportunity. I worry that even Mr Jelly, if he paid £1,000 for quality advertorial in Sunday Times, would then not be able to handle the number of calls and approaches, and the low level of understanding those prospects would initially present.

I would love to talk further. PM me your mobile if you would and I will give you a call. Thanks

Bruce

Rogue Wave · 11 February 2006, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

Hugh,

I think you are absolutely right. This is what we used to call a 'lifestyle' business. They make enough to pay the bills and indulge their hobby. But the idea of going ' professional' and mass producing product to make a fortune, and the gearing up which that implies, is apparently unattractive.

Bruce

Surely the directors of Avon, Delta, Halmatic, Humber, Ribcraft and Ocean Dynamics have moved past the point of indulging their hobby and earning a crust.

But in general a lot of the rib industry is a cottage type industry. In fact it is generally accepted that Ribtec's demise was caused by the Camel Trophy contract. Gossip has it that they weren't geared up to meet the demands of quadrupling production and therefore didn't get the benefits of any economy of scale.

The volume production and marketing approach attitude that you are advocating surely fits in with the Ribeye's model. Do they need any help with their marketing effort? They certainly have the production capability

Surely scaling up production is easier done in a country that offers High Value engineering and design capability so should you be looking at manufactures and agents coming in from those areas SA, China or similar? Ribshop is involved in bringing in a range of boats from Portugal, Riva imports Ballistics from SA, X ribs bring in Falcons (not to be confused with XS Ribs) and Andre brings in Parkers and I think he works closely with Paul Lemmer. I don't think any of those guys could be accused of indulging their hobby.

Also the last time I looked they were certainly churning out the Avon Adventurer and Zodiac Huricane by the Lorry load so you might be another avenue

brucehawsker · 13 February 2006, 10:32

Stu,

You make good points.

But "Avon, Delta, Halmatic, Humber" and "Ocean Dynmamics" are primarily selling to the commercial market - am I right? Ribcraft do both, but they are miles away from the Solent which is my preferred area for work.

And I agree that those in the import business are working with a scalable business model - and I guess all sell standard builds. Perhaps I should talk to these four names ie Riva, Ribshop, X Ribs and Andre & Co.

I have no skill in selling commercially, nor great interest. It is the volume B2C and therefore high margin business which intrigues.

Thanks

Bruce

donutsina911 · 13 February 2006, 11:18

bruce, just out of interest - have you ever sold b2b and do you have any IT knowledge?

fred bolton · 13 February 2006, 11:58

[QUOTE=brucehawsker]

I am a highly expereinced marketer / salesman (have been known to sell white stuff to Eskimos) with 25 years expereince.

Bit of a drug dealer then

Jimbo · 13 February 2006, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

Ribcraft do both, but they are miles away from the Solent which is my preferred area for work.

Took me an hour and a half from Portsmouth to Yeovil to pick the Uni's Ribcraft up/

RIVA · 13 February 2006, 18:11

we will pay you £200 inc vat finders fee for every boat you fetch to us and we agree to place on brokerage .

and we will pay you between a minimum of £500 to a maximum of a £1000 inc vat for evey ballistic we sell as a result of you sending us the potential buyer .

two people on here ernet a very nice boating fund last year

by the way that offers open to anyone

you can start tomorow if you want

Rogue Wave · 13 February 2006, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

Stu,

You make good points.

But "Avon, Delta, Halmatic, Humber" and "Ocean Dynmamics" are primarily selling to the commercial market - am I right? Ribcraft do both, but they are miles away from the Solent which is my preferred area for work.

Thanks

Bruce

it's 60/40 Bruce Avon adventurers are very popular first time boats, Humber make plenty of leisure craft.

What's the location of the manufacturing plant got to do with your plans, I thought you wanted to flog em not build em!. As a point of interest I understand the heart of UK boating manufacturing is mostly in the Midlands

Downhilldai · 13 February 2006, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

it's 60/40 Bruce Avon adventurers are very popular first time boats, Humber make plenty of leisure craft.

What's the location of the manufacturing plant got to do with your plans, I thought you wanted to flog em not build em!. As a point of interest I understand the heart of UK boating manufacturing is mostly in the Midlands

Good point made here.
The end user in the marketplace you are targetting will be more interested in showrooms/marinas than factories.

brucehawsker · 14 February 2006, 12:06

donutsina911: Yes, have been involved in retail and b2b - mainly in financial services but also in physical product. Was involved a while back in an add on to SAP relating to team building. Yes, IT aware, ran a small hardware company 7 years ago buying rejects off Dixons and reselling working ones onto School and LAs.

fred bolton: a dealer, certainly!

rogue wave: Yeah, but... the issue is to find a manufacturer who will gear up. I suspect to create a 'standard' product will involve quite a lot of work, possibly even investment or funds raising for that company. I am interested in a new product line, and selling 10s not ones of that product line. And there are issues as to whether the sales go through dealers (unlikely, given my model) or from the factory or perhaps a new specialised outlet just flogging and supporting the unwashed buyer. I sort of suspect it would be easier with a local builder, but I am not averse to exploration with anyone.

LeewayComposite · 14 February 2006, 13:22

Bruce,

do i take it you are interested in starting a dealership? will you have a showroom? if you want, give me a ring with your ideas. my contact details are on my websites. http://www.leewayribs.co.uk and/or http://www.leewaycomposites.co.uk

Rogue Wave · 15 February 2006, 23:28

It is my understanding that these boys have spare manufacturing capacity and it certainly is a beutiful boat

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....extreme+marine

Hightower · 16 February 2006, 10:02

Bruce, can you not start up an Agency for all of the above Manufacturers. Not a broker service, but approach the manufacturers, ask for a commission percentage of each sale and a bonus if you reach a target and then get out there and do your stuff. That way you choose which market to advertise to, there's a low risk for the RIB builders out there and hopefully its smiles all round.

This is how it would go! You could approach a lifesyle mag with a concept, they feature it along with you agency name as contact. You and your team then decide when the phone calls and e-mails start comming in what requirements the customer needs and wants ie: Pots of money=Scorpion, wideboy=Apex. If you get my drift.

brucehawsker · 23 February 2006, 16:12

Things have progressed on the project since I startewd the thread. I am talking to a number of interested people. The idea taking shape is as follows, and thanks to you all, and to Hightower recently, for firing off the ideas!

I am looking not to have a showroom or anything flash, but to hold three demonstrators of three different standard build RIBS aimed at slightly different markets, all hardstanding in Lymington. I will produce, with help from friends, some really high quality stills and video of the boats in action. I have already tested the market for the non-boating press to produce advertorial based on their reporter / photgrapher being taken out and scared shitless for an afternoon. Reactions very, very positive.

Emphasis is on real turn-key. The buyer will purchase one clean package, with embedded pre-arranged marine finance subject to status. The package will comprise rib on trailer, standard colour (no decision to make) rigged engine (four stroke, no cjoice, no decisions to make), four life jackets, basic tools, basic safety pack (flares, first aid, horseshoes, MOB ladder), standard elctronics (combo fishfinder / plotter) pre-selected and installed, DSC radio, console and seat covers, trailer clamp, ropes, anchor etc etc. We will have a deal with a local chandlery to provide an appropriate clothing package, and the package price will include 2 PBII courses and one VHF course based on deal with a local school. There will also be a deal with a Southampton based boat yard for storage / support.

The message is that you, 40+ affluent bloke with wife and two teenagers, can simply acquire and own an amazing yet safe boat for an outlay of £10,000 cash down, and a monthly tariff of an estimated £1,000 all in (including financing repayments and interest, insurance, hard standing storage costs, launching and fuel), you can have a safe and fun boat expereince.

Or if you want an even better expereince, it will cost you £15,000 down and £1,500 per month.

Any thoughts? Have I gone mad?

Hugh Jardon · 23 February 2006, 19:24

wow tooo expensive for a boat without much choice

who is going to pay 1k or 1.5k per month? and for how long?

i would have thought that you will get some folks interested and then after some investigation they will go off for a package that is more tailored to their desires.

if you want to hit the mass market i think it needs to be priced so it is cheaper to open up your potential market, especially as you are proposing limited choices

just my view for what its worth......

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

Things have progressed on the project since I startewd the thread. I am talking to a number of interested people. The idea taking shape is as follows, and thanks to you all, and to Hightower recently, for firing off the ideas!

I am looking not to have a showroom or anything flash, but to hold three demonstrators of three different standard build RIBS aimed at slightly different markets, all hardstanding in Lymington. I will produce, with help from friends, some really high quality stills and video of the boats in action. I have already tested the market for the non-boating press to produce advertorial based on their reporter / photgrapher being taken out and scared shitless for an afternoon. Reactions very, very positive.

Emphasis is on real turn-key. The buyer will purchase one clean package, with embedded pre-arranged marine finance subject to status. The package will comprise rib on trailer, standard colour (no decision to make) rigged engine (four stroke, no cjoice, no decisions to make), four life jackets, basic tools, basic safety pack (flares, first aid, horseshoes, MOB ladder), standard elctronics (combo fishfinder / plotter) pre-selected and installed, DSC radio, console and seat covers, trailer clamp, ropes, anchor etc etc. We will have a deal with a local chandlery to provide an appropriate clothing package, and the package price will include 2 PBII courses and one VHF course based on deal with a local school. There will also be a deal with a Southampton based boat yard for storage / support.

The message is that you, 40+ affluent bloke with wife and two teenagers, can simply acquire and own an amazing yet safe boat for an outlay of £10,000 cash down, and a monthly tariff of an estimated £1,000 all in (including financing repayments and interest, insurance, hard standing storage costs, launching and fuel), you can have a safe and fun boat expereince.

Or if you want an even better expereince, it will cost you £15,000 down and £1,500 per month.

Any thoughts? Have I gone mad?

donutsina911 · 23 February 2006, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

Things have progressed on the project since I startewd the thread. I am talking to a number of interested people. The idea taking shape is as follows, and thanks to you all, and to Hightower recently, for firing off the ideas!

I am looking not to have a showroom or anything flash, but to hold three demonstrators of three different standard build RIBS aimed at slightly different markets, all hardstanding in Lymington. I will produce, with help from friends, some really high quality stills and video of the boats in action. I have already tested the market for the non-boating press to produce advertorial based on their reporter / photgrapher being taken out and scared shitless for an afternoon. Reactions very, very positive.

Emphasis is on real turn-key. The buyer will purchase one clean package, with embedded pre-arranged marine finance subject to status. The package will comprise rib on trailer, standard colour (no decision to make) rigged engine (four stroke, no cjoice, no decisions to make), four life jackets, basic tools, basic safety pack (flares, first aid, horseshoes, MOB ladder), standard elctronics (combo fishfinder / plotter) pre-selected and installed, DSC radio, console and seat covers, trailer clamp, ropes, anchor etc etc. We will have a deal with a local chandlery to provide an appropriate clothing package, and the package price will include 2 PBII courses and one VHF course based on deal with a local school. There will also be a deal with a Southampton based boat yard for storage / support.

The message is that you, 40+ affluent bloke with wife and two teenagers, can simply acquire and own an amazing yet safe boat for an outlay of £10,000 cash down, and a monthly tariff of an estimated £1,000 all in (including financing repayments and interest, insurance, hard standing storage costs, launching and fuel), you can have a safe and fun boat expereince.

Or if you want an even better expereince, it will cost you £15,000 down and £1,500 per month.

Any thoughts? Have I gone mad?

There's no real USP here and I dont think the numbers stack up...type in the figures above to http://www.bankofscotland.co.uk/cgi-...c-backwards.pl
and you'll find that over 120 months that 10k down 1k pcm equates to £96,000 purchasing power and 60 months £60,000! I would be surprised if the type of person with that kind of disposable income didnt just do some research on the net, visit a few dealers, test a few boats and buy a custom built rib at lets say £35000, pay £250 for some training at their nearest provider, another £500 quid for insurance and cough up a couple of grand a year for a marina berth of their choice. Case in point might be Magnum on this forum..

In terms of USPs - what does this service offer anybody other than those who cant be arsed to carry out a bit of research or those who happen to want one of three styles of ribs, kept at your particular yard, with your choice of training location, with your idea of what should be carried on board?

With a car analogy, at the £35k mark, you're looking at say a BMW 5 Series or Merc E Class. Would your average personal or fleet purchaser still opt for one if it only came in one colour, with a 2 ltre petrol engine, a minidisc player, grey leather and you had to insure it with the AA?

At the lower end of the market this might be okay, offering a cheap and cheerful "one design" type rib, but I cant see it working with those kind of numbers involved.

Just my humble opinion and I'd love to be proved wrong and maybe those in the trade might have a better feel for it...