MCA Inspections, Solent, Summer 2005

MCA · 31 March 2005, 11:17

As you will almost certainly be aware there are a number of high-profile events taking place during the summer months in the Solent, including the International Fleet Review, the International Festival of the Sea, the return of the Global Challenge fleet, Cowes Week and the British Powerboat Grand Prix.

If you are planning on operating your vessel for non-pleasure purposes during these events the MCA understands that you would prefer not to be boarded during when you may have clients onboard. Please arrange a pre-summer 2005 inspection during April, May and early June with the MCA. If your vessel has not received a pre-summer 2005 inspection the MCA may board during one of the summer events in the Solent to ensure compliance.

We would expect to find that all vessels operating for non-pleasure purposes are carrying an appropriate statutory certificate for their area of operation. An appropriate certificate may be a Local Authority Licence for operation within the Solent, or a Small Commercial Vessel Certificate. Those vessels with Small Commercial Vessel Certificates for a sport or pleasure vessel should comply with the Code of Practice for which a certificate of compliance has been issued to the vessel even though the vessel is not at sea. A copy of the certificate should be onboard (however on a RIB or other open vessel, I would recommend a copy of the certificate is carried, or the certificate is laminated).

Although not at sea, on a skippered charter we would expect the minimum qualification of the skipper on a Small Commercial Vessel to be a commercially endorsed RYA Powerboat Level 2 Certificate (for a motor vessel), and a commercially endorsed RYA Day Skipper Practical (Sailing), (for a sailing vessel). On a bareboat charter, the owner should be satisfied that the person in charge of the vessel is capable of operating the vessel. If the vessel is on a bareboat charter, but being used for further commercial work, the standard minimum manning requirements (above) apply.

To arrange an pre-summer 2005 inspection or if you have any questions please call the MCA’s Southampton Marine Office on 023 8032 9329.

scm · 31 March 2005, 11:29

Quote:

non-pleasure purposes during these events

Does this include being a marshal for the fleet review working under a warrant issued by QHM?
If so, perhaps you could send the above message to the Portsmouth QHM who will have apporx 100 ribs at his disposal during the fleet review.
Regards
SM

Jono · 31 March 2005, 11:50

I've got some questions here...

1) Who, exactly, are you ? You put down MCA. Are we to understand that you are the lawful representative of The Maritime and Coastguard Agency? If so please give your name and position within that agency.

2) Why do you use the phrase "expect to find" in this post?

3) Why do you use the word "should" and not "must" in several areas?

I'm only curious, please don't take offence...I just like to be crystal clear on things.....

Andy · 31 March 2005, 12:03

How does the MCA normally communicate with commercial skippers?

tim griffin · 31 March 2005, 12:34

This is the notice that i have seen posted around various marina's so i guess someone is trying to be helpful to us commercial skippers . I think they would have been better saying who they are rather than just stating MCA . But it is a true statement so any one trying to blag work and is not coded MCA or local Authority don't do it as they do board you some are quite pleasant and the clients think its fun kind of Miami Vice . Others are a tad less pleasant and can be quite rude and this can be quite upsetting to clients .

Scary Des · 31 March 2005, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by scm

Does this include being a marshal for the fleet review working under a warrant issued by QHM?

No MCA QHM MOD and RYA and for all I know EOE are working together on this event and have an understanding about what is expected of the Marshals.
MCA are after unscrupulous commercial operator cashing-in with passengers they may not be allowed to take. Des

scm · 31 March 2005, 19:54

Funny, not what the guy at the MCA said to me

Andy · 31 March 2005, 22:28

scm ...... you seem to want to prove us all wrong on this one and you seem slightly bitter!

Let's say QHM did pay you commercial boys to do this ... do you have 100 RIBs, all coded with 100 skippers all ready to go?

The money for commercial boys will be in taking out the press and fee paying public on expensive charters.

Your arguement is not lost on me, just take it to QHM, all the good people on here have done is volenteer their valuable free time when asked by a respected local authority to help out in an hostorical event. They are making no money and are giving far more than they are taking.

Rogue Wave · 01 April 2005, 05:52

what's the point of having the coding sticker on your boat if your gonna get inspected all the time! Why not just inspect the boats without a sticker!

I don't have a problem with running the cowboys out of town.

Doh!

Scary Des · 01 April 2005, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by scm

Funny, not what the guy at the MCA said to me

Funny, that is what the guy at the MCA said to me

scm · 01 April 2005, 18:47

Quote:

you seem to want to prove us all wrong on this one and you seem slightly bitter!

Andy,
You will agree, I hope, that the use of the smiley faces mean that I am expressing myself with a smile on my face when I write these messages. Not bitter at all and yes I have been booked and paid thank you for the event. So I have nothing to gain by what I say.

My point is ref safety, for both others and myself. Having been there when these sort of events go ahead I and others on here know what it is really like, as I am sure you do. I am not only on about the comm guys but all experienced rib drivers who know what it will be like. So I, IMHO, think that it is very dogey allowing some very willing but not necessarily capable people on the water during this event.

If only one person on this forum reads this and thinks that perhaps this is not the time to be gaining experience and perhaps they should just turn up and watch. Then that’s fine by me

Andy · 01 April 2005, 18:57

I can't disagree with you these events are for the experienced. I have done every Solent event since & including the D-Day celebrations of 1994, and they are all hell on water. I just felt you are covering old ground, we all discussed this in great detail on the last thread on this subject. To be fair QHM knows the score, and has the authority on the matter, I am sure he has done the paperwork and made the decision based on a lot of consultation.

If you where reitterating this point because of safety then thats excellent. If you are making a point about commercial skippers capabilities vs us hobbists then we are on different pages. Just cause people are commercial does not mean they can handle their boat better, are any safer or have experience in these conditions. In fact many are arrogant and storm about the water as if they own it. During the America's Cup Jubilee, I took photos of such arseholes and sent them letters after the event, with little effect! I should have reported them to the MCA. We can all name many commercial vessels that have incidents, admittedly far less than joe public.

I think we agree ... this event wont be for the faint hearted and experience counts!! Personnally I think PB2 as a bar is too low.

scm · 01 April 2005, 19:03

Andy,
I do agree.

SM

John Kennett · 05 April 2005, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

I've got some questions here...

1) Who, exactly, are you ? You put down MCA. Are we to understand that you are the lawful representative of The Maritime and Coastguard Agency? If so please give your name and position within that agency.

This user did register using an mcga.gov.uk email address so is likely to be genuine!

John

Jono · 06 April 2005, 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

This user did register using an mcga.gov.uk email address so is likely to be genuine!

John

Fine, then why not make it clear with name and department? It used to make me chuckle when the local papers used to quote a "Fire Brigade Spokesman" when we used to encourage the station cook and cleaner to answer the phone to the press and give incident details.....

Rogue Wave · 06 April 2005, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

This user did register using an mcga.gov.uk email address so is likely to be genuine!

John

Is that ribnet complying with the freedom of information act?

John Kennett · 06 April 2005, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

Fine, then why not make it clear with name and department?

I agree -- it would have been much better if he had. It would also be good if he came back to follow up some of the responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Is that ribnet complying with the freedom of information act?

Don't think that applies to dictatorships!

John

CJL · 06 April 2005, 11:35

This is an all inclusive event and not just an elitist one.

Everybody should be welcomed out on to the water in a safe manner!

No need to keep commenting on this or it just develops into scare mongering!

Chris

MCA · 07 April 2005, 15:09

Follow up to last thread posted.

Firstly let me apologise for not including my name etc. in the thread. Its all at the end of this thread now.

To address some of the points made in the replies to our posting…

The words “expect to find” were used because if we do not it may result in that vessel not being allowed to operate and being escorted to the nearest point that allows passengers/crew to disembark safely.

Where the word “should“ was used it does infer “must”.

INTERNATIONAL FLEET REVIEW

There has been much discussion on this site over the RIBs being used as marshalling boats during the International Fleet Review. The MCA have been working closely with those organising the Trafalgar 200 celebrations and are satisfied that there is no commercial gain for those whose RIBs that are being used for marshalling, therefore there is no requirement for them to carry any statutory certification. The Trafalgar 200 team have put their own safety conditions on the RIBs to be used.

I would recommend that all those that will be attending the Trafagar 200 celebrations look at the following website for safety information surrounding the event:

http://www.trafalgar200.com/yachtareas.html

Mark Towl
Marine Technician
Southampton Marine Office

Tel: 023 8032 9329
Fax: 023 8032 9351

Jono · 07 April 2005, 16:37

Mark,

Thank you for the courtesy of responding.

Could you tell me who was responsible for the wording? I’m referring to the use of the word “should” and your comment that this should infer “must”. I am pretty convinced that there is a huge difference between the two words, especially when used in an event that could end up before the courts. I am trying to find a reference for this, but at the moment can only come up with a report on court case in a legal journal.

“she made mistakes that everyone--including the Defendants' lawyers--could and did pick up (the difference between "must" and "should", for example).”

If you could shed some light on the matter, I would appreciate it.