RYA Wavelength - should sailing instructors be allowed to run the safety boat course?

Matt Riley · 06 April 2009, 16:58

John Thorn, National Sailing Coach highlights the fact that there is a lack of uptake for the safety boat course among sailing, rowing and windsurfing club safety boat drivers and suggests that this is because there aren't enough PBIs in club environments who are willing to teach it (for free).

He suggests that sailing Senior Instructors are often more experienced, in the field of race management as well as rescuing boats, and so are potentially better suited to the role. He wants feedback by email, but I thought it would potentially be good to have the discussion in an open forum as well.

BassBoy · 06 April 2009, 17:41

It's a darned good idea. There's no one better to rescue a Topper than a Topper sailor, or a 420 than a 420 sailor etc etc etc.

As long as they have the powerboat skills as well!

biffer · 06 April 2009, 18:51

i second that bassboy

eilean mor · 06 April 2009, 19:23

you have hit the nail squarely there, by stating, - as long as they have the necessary powerboat skills - and having taught lots of dinghy senior instructors, then many of them clearly don't have the powerboat skills, barely being able to drive the thing themselves, let alone show someone the skills necessary in safetyboat work.
that said, the principle sounds great, its just the reality that lets it down.

RAD · 06 April 2009, 22:21

I am a DI and a PBI with safety boat so can teach it anyway.

I think it is a good idea providing the SI has done the safety boat course and has adequate power boat driving experience.

You can teach sailing without getting in a rescue boat as you can run a course with you in the boat with the students.

I would be happy to do some things for the club but after all, I paid for myself to do the instructor course, its only fair that they paid me something for the time spent teaching members.

SeaSkills · 07 April 2009, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by eilean mor

you have hit the nail squarely there, by stating, - as long as they have the necessary powerboat skills

Yep, agree absolutely. I've worked with some Dinghy SIs with simply dreadful powerboat skills, and with even more Powerboat Instructors who have little or no idea about how a sailing boat works (or a windsurfer, or a kayak, or any of the other craft covered by the Safety Boat course)

James Stevens (John Thorn's boss at the RYA) says in his introduction to the RYA Safety Boat Handbook "Steering a powerboat is a simple skill but manouevring a safety boat around a capsized dinghy with sailors in the water and ropes just under the water requires considerable skill". I agree with him, and I definitely want someone with very good boat handling skills at the helm when there are people (often kids) in the water

The Safety Boat course covers lots of ground; the management of teaching sailing, how to rescue various types of boats, and how to lay and recover marks for races. It's quite a technical course, and in my opinion neither Powerboat Instructors nor Dinghy Senior Instructors are properly and fully prepared for it in the current scheme. We'e being asked to choose between two poor options. I think a better solution would be to introduce a short training module which PBIs and DSIs would all be eligible to attend and earn an endorsement to their Instructor qualification so that they could teach the course

K&S · 07 April 2009, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

The Safety Boat course covers lots of ground; the management of teaching sailing, how to rescue various types of boats, and how to lay and recover marks for races. It's quite a technical course, and in my opinion neither Powerboat Instructors nor Dinghy Senior Instructors are properly and fully prepared for it in the current scheme. We'e being asked to choose between two poor options. I think a better solution would be to introduce a short training module which PBIs and DSIs would all be eligible to attend and earn an endorsement to their Instructor qualification so that they could teach the course

I agree and think that the course be of a similar duration to a level 2 course. OR broken down into modules i.e. sail rescue boat, windsurf rescue etc...

I would also sugest that it SB be stricter in the types of craft and venue it can be taken or be site specific.

In my opinion it is a course that is long overdue a shake up.

Doug Stormforce · 07 April 2009, 18:31

Im not sure I would advocate anyone who has not been trained as a powerboat Instructor deliverying a powerboat course.

I agree that an SI should have a background in safetyboat work but does that equip him in powerboat training? Surely the safetyboat Instructor should be reinforcing all of the skills that have often been forgotten since at Level 2?

Daniel · 07 April 2009, 21:26

In many ways i feel to effictively deliver the SB course you need to be a PBI AND a DI.

I say this as qualified in both myself, and the only person i can think of able to effectively deliver the SB course, and obviously i know a selection of PBI's and a selection of DI's. (i am trying to be objective not big headed).

This idea, of course, certianly wont see more people taking the course, it will simply reduce the amount of people able to deliver it.

Certianly the current scheme "if you hold SB you can teach it" is a shortcoming.

My view is that the course needs breaking down, a bit like the dinghy scheme was i suppose. Few saling clubs need to cover canoe rescue, for example.

MikeL · 08 April 2009, 16:16

I used to run the SB course for several lifeguard clubs in the Poole & Bournemouth area as they conducted safety cover for verious on water sporting events.

My personal grip with the SB award was that I felt to much time was spend trying and cover the rescues of many different types of craft. I believe that as the safety boat crew is normally the first on scene in an emergency a little more time could be included with practical first aid afloat e.g. unconscious casualty rescue & treatment of bleeding and resus in the boat.

We normally ran the course over two and a half day to include this so the students could have a couple of full emergency scenarios to try out.

I do agree that someone with a PB instructor ticket who has just passed their SB course is not really that experience or prepared to run a SB course. A PB instructor who has passed their SB and is a dingy instructor would be great but limiting it to that would exclude many fine instructors with different backgrounds.

Just my 2p worth

Doug Stormforce · 08 April 2009, 17:43

Intresting points

I don't think there are many centre Principals who would send out a PBI with no safetyboat background to run a SB course. In fact there are very few non dinghy centres who would actually have the kit required to run a SB course.

I agree a good safetyboat instructor is liklky to be a PBI and DI and also likely to have spent some time with someone else being shown or taught how to run a good SB course.

On the basis that you are supposed to have done L2 before SB how does allowing SIs to run the SB help clubs. They still need PBIs to run the L2, likewsie they will need to be a PB Centre to run the SB course.

Jelly · 09 April 2009, 13:35

Having worked with DI's, SI's and some PBI's I would scared to get them to teach the SB course. (SI's its normally due to lack of recent practice) Some DI’s scare me when they are driving PB let alone when they are teaching.

It used to be the case that to be a DI you didn't need to have a SB just an L2 and to be an SI you needed SB not sure if that’s still the case.

To do SB you need to be able to concentrate on what’s happening and not be concentrating on what you are doing with the rib i.e. that should be second nature.

The split from the old L3 and L4 course to SB increased the knowledge of skills and methods that most club drivers would have and was a good thing, but the removal of the information needed for big events was in my mind an omission, I understand the RYA racing section is putting together an Events SB course to go with the Mark Layer course they have just issued.

I think the issue is that you need to have the core powerboat skills before you can be taught to work the boat, unfortunately if those attending the course are not up to that level (i.e. passing a L2 DA with flying colours) do you have the time and PB skills to get them up to speed in the time and run the course?

I disagree that to be a good SBI you need to be a DI, but you do need to know what dinghies do and how they are rigged, so you can aid the crew in reefing / recovery with out damage to any parties (i.e. its not bolt croppers and sail knifing)

Just a few thoughts
James

Scousedeli · 29 May 2009, 11:32

I think the rya need to look at why the uptake of the SBC is down, if it because of a shortage of instructors then allowing senior sailing instructors with a short conversion course may be the way forward (showing them how to coach powerboat coxswains as opposed to dinghy helmsman)

I think the problem lies with who needs the qualification and how it matches their needs. The only people who require the SBC are Senior sailing instructors and staff at RYA recognised teaching establishments. Most sailing clubs will have SB coxswains but may not require them to hold the qualification but have had some training. I perferred the old level 3 & 4 course it allowed for more time training to reach a similar level but had the flexability to allow trainees to reach the level they wanted without covering elements of the current course they dont need i.e do sailing clubs need to know how to rescue kayaks/canoes?

tim griffin · 29 May 2009, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeL

I used to run the SB course for several lifeguard clubs in the Poole & Bournemouth area as they conducted safety cover for verious on water sporting events.

Which ones RLSS UK and SLSA GB both have their own IRB Helm course.

Back on topic
Just because you teach sailing well does not qualify you to jump to SB Instructor level its two completely different disciplines that require different skill sets .

Tim

Doug Stormforce · 30 May 2009, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scousedeli

i.e do sailing clubs need to know how to rescue kayaks/canoes?

In fairness this is an incredibly short part of the course and it re inforces the importance of dealing with the casualty in the water first and worrying about the kit second.

DGR · 04 June 2009, 13:22

I don't really understand what's being suggested by the RYA.

Are they suggesting that:

- DI/SIs can teach Safety Boat, or

- DI/SIs who are also PBI qualified should teach the SBC?

I can understand the latter - but it would seems a little stupid to suggest that non-PBIs teach a course which requires more technical knowledge and better boat handling skills than an L2 - which DOES require a PBI.

I suspect that the lack of SB courses being run is because lots of clubs consider L2 as the benchmark for club boat handling - and I'm not sure whether the RYA recommend/advise that the SB ticket is held - but I'm pretty sure it's not included in the club inspections. If it was, it would perhaps focus minds a little more.

My opinion - obviously!!

Doug Stormforce · 05 June 2009, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGR

I don't really understand what's being suggested by the RYA.

Are they suggesting that:

- DI/SIs can teach Safety Boat, or

- DI/SIs who are also PBI qualified should teach the SBC?

The suggestion is that a SI (not a DI) could also teach the Safetyboat Course.

Northern Tim · 05 June 2009, 09:42

I have safetyboat and PBI, so can teach safetyboat but having had very little dinghy experience, I wouldn't! I just don't feel confident enough to teach it yet.
I'm going to do my dinghy L1+2 in a few weeks, and I think that safetyboat instructors should have PBI and at least dinghy1+2 if not sailing instructor.