Stupid question time

[dsgrnmcm]

Evening all,

I'm a PBI with an APB commercially endorsed ticket. I'm going for my APBI and have been told I need to do an advanced Power Boat Exam? As I read the various info this exam is for those who want to be commercially endorsed and a repeat of my advanced course?

[Doug Stormforce]

Think of the Adv COC as a pre entry exam. Before you attend advanced instructor training you need to proove you have the hard skills to operate at that level.

The fact that the adv COC and the 2 day course share the same name is daft but they are not the same thing.

[Ribochet]

Definitely not a stupid question but one that is easier answered, in person, by the Principal of a RYA Advanced Powerboat Teaching Centre such as Doug or other Principals who post on RIBnet.

Don't be put off - being an APBI is increasingly becoming a formidable qualification and you may even progress to becoming a Powerboat Trainer

[dsgrnmcm]

Cheers Doug,

I did ring the RYA, and after being passed around it was "just a prerequesite". Bit expensive as you pay for the APB course with an exam, the fork out £170 again.

Hope it's worth it!

Is PB trainer the next step after APBI?

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by dsgrnmcm

Evening all,

I'm a PBI with an APB commercially endorsed ticket. I'm going for my APBI and have been told I need to do an advanced Power Boat Exam? As I read the various info this exam is for those who want to be commercially endorsed and a repeat of my advanced course?

If you are an APB Commercially endorsed then you must have already done the APB COC exam. Or am I misunderstanding something here ?

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

If you are an APB Commercially endorsed then you must have already done the APB COC exam. Or am I misunderstanding something here ?

That's what I thought.....unless he had the adv before a certain date and therefore never did an actual exam and that affects it somehow?

[SW Boat Transport]

If he did he advanced powerboat course before 2005 he will have been able to commercially endorse it without doing the COC exam.

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by SW RIB Charter

If he did he advanced powerboat course before 2005 he will have been able to commercially endorse it without doing the COC exam.

Does that mean he has to do the exam before he can become an advanced instructor?

[SW Boat Transport]

Originally Posted by PeterM

Does that mean he has to do the exam before he can become an advanced instructor?

Yes the advanced COC exam is now a pre-entry requirement to become an advanced powerboat instructor. In addition you must hold a valid commercial endorsement in order to teach aboard a vessel that is subject to the MCA's code of practice.

[biffer]

It never ceases to. Amaze me the different ways they find of extracting money from us for training.
Since I did my APB they have split up your training so you pay more. God they've even changed the way you do CPR about 5 times and I bet nobodies been shown how to do it in a rib

[dsgrnmcm]

It does seem expensive, almost 200 for an exam and that's using our own boat's, our classroom and this is before the course.

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by dsgrnmcm

It does seem expensive, almost 200 for an exam and that's using our own boat's, our classroom and this is before the course.

Don't forget the Commercial Endorsement fee (about £30) on top of the APB COC exam cost.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by biffer

It never ceases to. Amaze me the different ways they find of extracting money from us for training.
Since I did my APB they have split up your training so you pay more.

they can't win though - without the separate exam etc then people complain that its too easy to become commercially endorsed these days and these people are being trusted with others lives etc... make it part of the standard APB course (which would take more time so = more money anyway) then people who have no intention of commercial work complain that they just want the training and are being penalised to suit those who are going to make money from it.

God they've even changed the way you do CPR about 5 times and I bet nobodies been shown how to do it in a rib

First Aid refreshers are inevitable whether the European Resuscitation Council change their guidelines or not - it is about practicing skills than most people never use and need to be intuitive. Resus is a developing area and so as we discover new factors which might increase effectiveness/survival should this not be taught?

Originally Posted by dsgrnmcm

It does seem expensive, almost 200 for an exam and that's using our own boat's, our classroom and this is before the course.

That strikes me as about right - 1 to 1 its 5 or 6 hours of an examiners time, plus the admin costs etc. How much will you value your time at as an APB Instructor?

Actually as a "professional qualification" APB Instructor training is pretty cheap. I guess its also a barrier to entry that keeps every tom, dick and harry who thinks it would be fun to do (but not necessarily planning to do it full time) out the game which means your fees as instructors stays higher.

[biffer]

You can fluff it up anyway you like Poly it still the same bullox, I got a reminder that my ticket was up for renewal and I now have to do another module that wasn't there last time, I can take it on line, as many times as I like as long as I pay the fee, now tell me that's not just a money maker, like my old dad used to say, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining

[Poly]

Originally Posted by biffer

like my old dad used to say, don't pee on my leg

You Southerners and your weird perversions!

If it was just about making money they would charge even more - they essentially have a monopoly.

Whilst the mechanism for the PPL or whatever its called is interesting its intended to address an issue that plenty of people have with commercial powerboating - its too easy for any idiot to get the qualification and set themselves up with no regard for the rules, regulations and best practices. As I understand it - its "open book" so the test is not if you know para 1.1 schedule 3(a) but that you know how and where to find the information and have a basic level of intelligence needed to read some rules and answer some questions on it. I don't know what the content is like but the rationale seems OK. As I recall the cost is less than £40? And presumably tax deductable! So the true cost to a commercial skipper is really his time doing the test not the fee to the RYA.

[dsgrnmcm]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

Don't forget the Commercial Endorsement fee (about £30) on top of the APB COC exam cost.

Am I missing something?

If the APB exam is used before applying for a commercial endorsement? Then if I am already commercially endorsed as a APB then do I not have to do it?

Or is it still a pre APBI thing?

[biffer]

You're missing the point Poly, they don't need to see you or anyone else you get to do it on line, and why do it for all us guys who have been doing this forever, from my point of view it's a kick in the nuts since I was contracted by the RYA for about 5 years to do there international sailing events

[Poly]

Originally Posted by biffer

You're missing the point Poly, they don't need to see you or anyone else you get to do it on line,

ah OK, I hadn't realised there was a fundamental security issue, I thought it was actually done online at RYA schools, was that not the original plan? does seem like a bit of a risk - although I presume as with any of the MCA recognised training / certificate stuff messing with it is likely to carry hefty penalties if caught?

and why do it for all us guys who have been doing this forever,

I presume they believed that some of you salty old sea dog / old duffers / recently passed young wipper snappers were pretty clueless at the stuff this covers.

from my point of view it's a kick in the nuts since I was contracted by the RYA for about 5 years to do there international sailing events

if you are already an expert it should be trivial to do; is the aim not to ensure everyone is the same minimum standard. In other worlds people would "Accredit Prior Experience and Learning" to show you were already expert (if being contracted by the RYA 5 yrs ago actually means you are an expert on this stuff which I expect it doesn't - especially as it needs renewed every 5 yrs!) - but the cost of doing that is usually much more than the £31+vat of this course!

[biffer]

I wasn't with the RYA 5 years ago I work for them for 5 years, I was also one of the team that did the Olympic per trial and helped to write the brief on the security/ running program, I was also one of the team leaders until my cancer stopped play, I think this old duffer knows what he's doing by now, I just get pissed off with training orgs putting there hand in my pocket for no reason, since I did my ICC some 18 years ago and then the rest shortly after they have changed everything and not for the good, as a commercial diver I had one medical, then as skipper another, and as race boat driver another, how many feckin medicinal s does it take, they should cross over, two of them are on the same bit of paper with different titles for Christ sake, have to do first aid for diving, even CPR in the water, doesn't cross over, it's not the 30 odd quid its the principle of it

[Poly]

Biff,

I understand the medical bit, although partly I suspect that might be our friends in the medical profession milking you - they don't HAVE to charge you full price 3x over!

I also agree that the RYA first aid course is a bit of nonsense. They make out its unique to the marine environment but most trainers never leave the classroom. If I genuinely wanted to learn outdoor first aid I'd probably be looking at the BASP, and I don't see why the RYA course isn't run in a similar style.