Unofficial code of conduct??

Steve_B · 20 September 2010, 19:07

This is NOT a pop a particular individual or company, as I know they post on here.
Being the “new boy" in the business, I don’t want to upset the commercial community, but would like guidance if I find myself in the same position again. Trying to strike a balance between naive and cocky, is not easy.

What is the normal code of conduct when chartering a RIB from another company or individual?
I was called today at about 1330 today, about a 4 day bare boat charter starting tomorrow. This quickly changed to a one day charter, for the next day. In a telephone call I was asked a price, which I gave and was asked if I could match what they had agreed with a third party. I agreed to this as a favour to someone I respect and I thought the deal was done.
An hour later, I got an answer phone message informing me that it would now need to be a skippered charter. I rang around a lot of Skippers who I have built up a good working relationship with over the last year and with some effort on their part got a Skipper for tomorrow.
Minutes later, got a text, informing that “it was OK, they had got another boat”!
I then had to ring Skipper to cancel and explain.
So what should I do in future?
Steve

Maximus · 20 September 2010, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by 250kts

This is NOT a pop a particular individual or company, as I know they post on here.
Being the “new boy" in the business, I don’t want to upset the commercial community, but would like guidance if I find myself in the same position again. Trying to strike a balance between naive and cocky, is not easy.

What is the normal code of conduct when chartering a RIB from another company or individual?
I was called today at about 1330 today, about a 4 day bare boat charter starting tomorrow. This quickly changed to a one day charter, for the next day. In a telephone call I was asked a price, which I gave and was asked if I could match what they had agreed with a third party. I agreed to this as a favour to someone I respect and I thought the deal was done.
An hour later, I got an answer phone message informing me that it would now need to be a skippered charter. I rang around a lot of Skippers who I have built up a good working relationship with over the last year and with some effort on their part got a Skipper for tomorrow.
Minutes later, got a text, informing that “it was OK, they had got another boat”!
I then had to ring Skipper to cancel and explain.
So what should I do in future?
Steve

Never mind Steve,seems this type of thing happens in all types of buisness,infact in all walks of life.There's not alot you can do,except wipe your mouth and put it down to experiance...and re-evaluate who earns your respect! ''Nout so queer as folk''
Glad to see you seem to be doing well overall....and THAT is the main thing!

willk · 20 September 2010, 19:40

Yeah, wot Maxi said. I see this sort of bollix all the time.

Next time say sure thing, quote 'em a high price and forget it...

Rogue Wave · 20 September 2010, 19:44

Frustrating isn't it but the Boat charter business is full of this nonsense.

How do you think these guys would have handled paying for any damage that could have been caused if the boats had gone on the charter?

I would never rent out my boat bareboat again I've done it twicw and bioth times it came back damaged...........big problem if you use it to earn a living, same thig eaxh time the throttle had been snaooed clean off.

There are a lot of flakey people out there, it's also very easy on a Forum to big yourself up and get a few mates to say how fab you are, but some companies are operating without much substance and a few are working other peoples boats. Not a problem until you need 10 k off them to pay for a new outboard and theyv'e only got ten bob. How does your insurance stand with your leg being ripped off on a rock whilst on bareboat charter?

If I needed. to have a working relationship with another Boat charterer I'd be very choosy who I jumped into bed with and I'd have agreed T's and C's .

A good way of avoiding having your time wasted is to tell the person you want an email enquiry setting out their requirements and stating that they to you charging 30 quid an hour for admin if the deal doesn't come off,

I'n the past I have lent boats to two of the more established instructors on this forum one bent my prop the other overheated my 2 strioke to seizure. Not a good result for helping someone out So I wouldn't do it again.

The other point is when you rent out your boat bareboat you can bet your arse that it's going to be redlined!

Can I have one guess as to who it was

From what you are saying you have a decent turnover I wouldn't risk it going bareboat

Trell · 20 September 2010, 20:13

Have to agree with Mr R Wave, I no longer let any of my boats go out Bareboat, too much damage and shrugged shoulders, Better to use skippers you know on your own work.
I also insist on e-mails before I quote rather than just over the phone.

willk · 20 September 2010, 20:45

Hired equipment gets the sh1t kicked out of it. It's their way of "balancing the books" and ensuring that you don't "make money off them".

I recall being shocked by a well known member on here boasting about abusing hire cars. I just don't get it

Rogue Wave · 20 September 2010, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trell

Have to agree with Mr R Wave, .

You are now a member of a very small and secretive society

Chris · 20 September 2010, 21:39

I booked a hotel room the other day on the same day of my stay. I then had a meeting cancelled a few minutes later so called back to cancel the hotel. No Chance. Although pissed off I can't complain by agreeing to their terms i agreed to their terms so to speak.

When you send a quote do it via email have Ts & Cs attached and tell them the boat will only be booked once they confirm the quote.

I would set the cancellation charge at 50% up to 24 hours prior to the job and 100% any time after that.

martini · 20 September 2010, 21:55

As previously said, you get timewasters in all trades. With experience you get to spot them coming and don't bother going to too much effort on their behalf.

Poly · 20 September 2010, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by 250kts

So what should I do in future?

If you do want to offer bareboat then I'd suggest you need to be taking a sizeable deposit on a credit card (as per the few companies who do this as thier main business) to mitigate the Rogue Wave risk. You'll find that most of the car hire (and the large sailing yacht charter fleet) companies are taking an increasingly draconian approach - e.g. I believe Sunsail take a £2000 deposit, which if there is even a small scratch gets held for months until the repair is sorted and the cost finalised. This not only protects you but should focus the skipper's mind.

Secondly - anyone who phones up at 13:30 wanting a boat for tomorrow is desparate - you should be increasing your fees not decreasing them to help them out. If they've underpriced the job thats also their problem, and doesn't really help anyone in the industry - they can take the hit or cancel the job and let the customer pay you full price!

willk · 20 September 2010, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

If you do want to offer bareboat then I'd suggest you need to be taking a sizeable deposit on a credit card.......
You'll find that most of the car hire (and the large sailing yacht charter fleet) companies are taking an increasingly draconian approach - e.g. I believe Sunsail take a £2000 deposit

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Next time say sure thing, quote 'em a high price and forget it...

This is kinda what I meant - he'll NEVER do any business but he says friends with the lads and doesn't have to say "no"...

... or "fcuk off!"

Which is always good

Poly · 20 September 2010, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

This is kinda what I meant - he'll NEVER do any business but he says friends with the lads and doesn't have to say "no"...

... or "fcuk off!"

Which is always good

I'm not sure that's what I meant - if you don't want to give him the boat you just say no (easy enough to make up an excuse if you don't want to offend - but after this I'd say sorry you mucked us about last time)

However the point I was trying to make was that people whos core business is Bareboat will not only charge a booking deposit, but also a hefty security deposit which is not at all unreasonable. But also whilst chancers will be priced out by the "last minute premium" those with a genuine urgent need will happily pay the premium to fulfill their need.

willk · 20 September 2010, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I'm not sure that's what I meant - if you don't want to give him the boat you just say no (easy enough to make up an excuse if you don't want to offend - but after this I'd say sorry you mucked us about last time)

Ah, no, I meant lotsa wee fish in the same commercial pond. Who do you wanna fall out with, when you might need a boat/skipper/whatever in short order next week?

I'm very self sufficient in my business dealings but wary of falling out with my local competitors over pure hubris. They often ask for unreasonable favours and I try to dodge 'em, but you have to look to the day that you might need them. Anyways, real life enemies aren't worth the candle. I'd softsoap them every time...

SW Boat Transport · 21 September 2010, 08:09

The most important lesson we learned (the hard way!) is that a booking is never confirmed until you have the customer's card details for the charter fee. It is always the customers who want to pay on the day that mess you around as they know they have nothing to loose.

Michael

biffer · 21 September 2010, 08:45

i'm back!, it's not so much a code of practice as a gut feeling, if you think they're taking the piss, tell them, you might lose the charter but usually they know they're pushing it and it wont do any damage in regards of them trying again but with a better respect for you

wiLlfish · 21 September 2010, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by 250kts

So what should I do in future?

downt deel wiv snaiks (3.5ft)

wiLf

Steve_B · 21 September 2010, 19:14

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond either via a post, PM, email or call.

Needless to say I am older & wiser and knew the good folk on here would come through.

Onwards on upwards, up the learning curve

Steve

tim griffin · 21 September 2010, 19:36

Never do bareboat have got stung on that a couple of times by so called mates. Alway's with your skipper/instructor and alway's with a 50% deposit up front, oh and make sure fuel is either included in the fee or excluded as you may have to travel to the charter and this can add to your overall cost.
Ta Tim

biffer · 22 September 2010, 08:44

i always get paid in full on a private charter, i've had it in the past where i took a party to brighton and they all went to a club in london and didn't come back

speedy · 22 September 2010, 20:52

Yeah totally agree with most of the guys here, fatal to lend boats to anyone mates or whatever NO ONE takes care of your boats the way you would. It's human nature. "It's not mines so I will hammer it" etc... No one is as careful as yourself about that "nudge" against the pontoon or keeping the revs to a decent cruising speed.

In the past I used to lend out boats freely but after a succession of damaged components including where the culprit/s just walked away and said nothing about it , including a blown engine it all changed. That makes me so angry when the person doesnt even have the decency to tell you what damage they have done to your boat.

If any mates ask to borrow any boat now i just say to them..."Would you lend me your tools for your work for for a day or so?" I explain that the boats are my tools of the trade and without them i'm stuck

I get quite a number of calls asking for bare boat hire and I tell them that we need a £5000 deposit, that usually "stifles" the conversation. When they ask why so expensive I tell them that unlike when you hire car which is quite tracable a boat can disappear into thin air and there is little the police can do to trace it.