VHF Instructors - I'm Confused????

Jono Garton · 07 October 2006, 11:16

A few year ago when I did my SRC Instructors, the RYA told me to teach station called controls communication and selects channel as per the RYA VHF Radio book?

However in Tim Bartlets new "RYA VHF Handbook" it says station calling selects working channel?

My opinion is the 1st way is the correct option?

Jimbo · 07 October 2006, 11:51

It seems to have changed. When I did my SRC Assessors course back in March 05, it was taught that the station calling proposed the working channel.

This puts the voice procedures in line with the DSC Routine Alert - as the calling station selects the channel there.

SDGANDER · 07 October 2006, 12:07

I did my DSC/satcom add on for my old Restricted/LR ticket a couple of months ago and it was still called station choses the working channel for voice.

SDG

jwalker · 07 October 2006, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

A few year ago when I did my SRC Instructors, the RYA told me to teach station called controls communication and selects channel as per the RYA VHF Radio book?

Yes, I was taught that too but not once has it worked. Anytime I've called I've also had to select the channel because the called station didn't do it!
I always thought that it would the best way. Call > station answers > Caller acknowledges and requests channel...seems more straight forward. If it's changed, cool.

wavelength · 07 October 2006, 18:42

As far as I'm concerned the called station is the controlling station and as such selects the working channel and also starts of the comms on the working channel. All good in theory - except the called station may be your mate who was asleep! Now he is half awake and he has to think of a working channel and how does he know that channel is clear of traffic? So in PRACTISE it is far better for the calling station to have a listen to the working channels and when he calls his mate he can then suggest a channel that he knows is clear. When working with a coast station the coast station is always the controlling station cos of limited channels and remote aerials that he may be using but you may not be aware of at your location.

Jono Garton · 07 October 2006, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavelength

As far as I'm concerned the called station is the controlling station

Couldnt agree more, however Tim Bartlett and the RYA diasagree with the new book that accompanies the course.

Biggles · 07 October 2006, 21:11

Does it really matter as long as one of you has the gumption to pick a channel.

Seems a minor point to get all wound up about.

ICOM rules.

Jono Garton · 07 October 2006, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles

Does it really matter

When you teach VHF to about 150 - 200 people year, it matters.

Regards

Jono

wavelength · 07 October 2006, 22:07

teach 'em the theory and then tell 'em the real world situation.

Biggles · 07 October 2006, 22:49

Suppose your right if your dealing with people that are not used to radios.

Personally I believe the whole of the VHF Marine radio world needs a shakeup.

But that is coming from someone that has had 30 years plus experience of all types of Radio. Something to chew the fat over in a pub. But not something thats going to change anything unfortunately.

Hope to speak to you guys some time on the ethernet.

Tchuss. Biggles.

tim griffin · 08 October 2006, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo

It seems to have changed. When I did my SRC Assessors course back in March 05, it was taught that the station calling proposed the working channel.

This puts the voice procedures in line with the DSC Routine Alert - as the calling station selects the channel there.

Yup changed when the IMO introduced the DSC .

jwalker · 08 October 2006, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Yup changed when the IMO introduced the DSC .

As long ago as that. They publicised it well...not.

tim griffin · 08 October 2006, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

A few year ago when I did my SRC Instructors, the RYA told me to teach station called controls communication and selects channel as per the RYA VHF Radio book?

However in Tim Bartlets new "RYA VHF Handbook" it says station calling selects working channel?

My opinion is the 1st way is the correct option?

Jono
All the old VHF SRC Instructors had to attend an update this then allowed them to assess the exam as well and do away with the Independant Moderator and go by the grand title VHF SRC GMDSS Instructor/Assessor
Contact Allison Noice at the RYA to clear this up for you.

The DSC came in when they became available to leisure users, Simrad were one of the first to Introduce it . The old VHF SRC is still ok as it is voluntary fit on leisure users boats , you only need to upgrade your operators license if you fit a DSC unit

Jimbo is correct the procedure falls in line with the DSC element .
In the Solent you hear a mixture of calls some caller nominates (new )
some called nominate (old) both work .
It will take years before everyone is using the new system.
Both are correct just depends when you did your course and if you have upgraded.

Solent Ranger · 09 October 2006, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Both are correct just depends when you did your course and if you have upgraded.

When I did my original VHF exam - when a man from the ministry came in - it was the station called controlled the communication. I have to say that I had a problem with that, in that it was then up to the called station to check what channel was clear and then inform the calling station of the channel to tune to! Seemed totally illogical to me.

When I did my assessors course, some three years ago now, it was made a point that the protocol had changed to the calling station controlled the situation. I have had conversations regarding the correct protocol and I was informed that it was a "grey" area.

I now work on the principle that given the calling station controls the channel selection on DSC and that other VHF users, principally aviation, work on a similar basis that is the calling station that controls the communication.

This is the basis which I have marked the exam, and will continue to do so.

tim griffin · 09 October 2006, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solent Ranger

When I did my assessors course, some three years ago now, it was made a point that the protocol had changed to the calling station controlled the situation. I have had conversations regarding the correct protocol and I was informed that it was a "grey" area.

I now work on the principle that given the calling station controls the channel selection on DSC and that other VHF users, principally aviation, work on a similar basis that is the calling station that controls the communication.

This is the basis which I have marked the exam, and will continue to do so.

Hi Dave
you are correct 100% when teaching new students . I too had the point driven home that the calling station controls the channel selection.

Trouble is as its not compulsary fit we will have the two methods running side by side for a number of years .

Gray · 10 October 2006, 03:45

I did my VHF course a few weeks back and I was told it was the station being called that would decide the channel.

Seems more logical for the calling station to choose the channel, but which method should be used then.

Solent Ranger · 10 October 2006, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray

Seems more logical for the calling station to choose the channel, but which method should be used then.

Then use the one which is most logical! There will be those who use the old system, but let's be honest, it's not exactly life threatening if you don't when calling up another vessel. The best thing to do really is to ask all your boating chums for their MMSI numbers (this does of course presume that they have a DSC set or for that matter a ships radio licence!).

While I work on the basis of the calling station controls the communication, I also say that there will be the "old brigade" out there that will try and confuse the situation - no point on falling on your sword over the issue -just get off Ch16 as quickly as possible. So let common sense prevail!

Although there is not exactly a "telephone directory" of MMSI numbers these can be tracked down by looking on the MARS database.

http://www.itu.int/ITU-R/terrestrial/mars/index.asp

tim griffin · 10 October 2006, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray

I did my VHF course a few weeks back and I was told it was the station being called that would decide the channel.

Seems more logical for the calling station to choose the channel, but which method should be used then.

If you did you VHF DSC course a few weeks back then you should have been using the protocols as in the syllabus and the books like VHF Afloat by Sara Hopkinson and the new one G31 The RYA VHF Handbook by Tim Bartlett I would contact the RYA and explain where you did the course and what equipment you used . www.rya.org.uk
They will point you in the right direction as to the correct procedures

Jon Brooks · 10 October 2006, 08:52

Have to agree with Dave and Jim.
On my Assesors course, which was the same as Jim we were taught to teach calling station controls the choice of channel.
This falls in line with the use of DSC.
The only time this is not the case on DSC is when you make a coast station call to the coastguard then then select the working channel for you.

That is the way I teach it.

It will be a long time before VHF is required to be fitted on any pleasure vessel IMHO.

Best regards

Solent Ranger · 10 October 2006, 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim griffin

They will point you in the right direction as to the correct procedures

Hmmmmmmmm - I don't wish to sound cynically but.......................

I have tried to nail this one down once and for all, but to no avail. Even the MCA can't agree! And Ofcom? Well, they haven't got a clue, I never ask them anything because you'll get a different answer every time you speak to a different person - on anything!

So, like you, I will continue to work on the "station calling" scenario.