What percentage

Rogue Wave · 17 March 2005, 21:03

of the PB 2 course is supposed to be on the water!

Louise · 17 March 2005, 21:41

Stuart, not sure if you've seen this: http://www.rya.org.uk/images/uploade...ion_032004.pdf .

It seems to suggest (on page 3) that as much of the course as possible should be taught on the water.

HTH

Nick Hearne · 18 March 2005, 08:44

Stuart, that is on the water not in the water!

David Hickman · 18 March 2005, 09:07

80% is the figure that is recommended by the RYA. However, if the weather is nice there is no reason why it cannot be 100%.
There has to be a small amount of leeway if the weather is very bad and then more of the navigation theory and safety may have to be done inside.

Rogue Wave · 19 March 2005, 20:36

I figured it was 70 to 80 %.

The reason why I ask is that if you spend 70% of two days in the water on the Solent that equals about 10 hours

Given about 40 % of that will be river stuff then you have 6 hours on the water in or around the shipping channels!

Brucehawser says in a previous thread, and I believe him, that his instructor didn't point out the moving exclusion zone to him. Must have been a slow day not to have seen a big Box Boat, Car Transporter, VLCC or Liner in that six hours.

Unless the instructor was based in Lymington or Yarmouth and maybe he headed out to sea past the Needles.

Just trying to get a bit of dialog going really on whether or not we should include certain things in our training.

For example does any body do handouts that recaps the information contained in the course and maybe expands it

Rogue Wave · 19 March 2005, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

Stuart, that is on the water not in the water!

Funny enough I got pretty bloody wet on the Slipway at Saxon Wharf today, recovering somebodies boat who then rang me up and asked me to put it in the water tomoorow

Paul Glatzel · 19 March 2005, 21:45

The point about "on the water" doesn't necessarilly mean driving it means not sitting in the classroom. Eg: you could do buoyage in a classroom or cover it more practically out on the water. Its little things like that that make a big difference.

As to handouts did used to give out Practical Course Notes, now give out RYA Powerboat Handbook.

Paul

tim griffin · 20 March 2005, 21:31

I find its best if you get them to buy A book prior to the course PCN cover it ( cheaper)

Peter Whites and The RYA Handbook both cover sylabus very well. Trouble with handouts IMO is they get thrown out after a while, where a book can be refered to all the time . Re Bruce and his question you have to look at your operating area and do a risk assesment of what hazards your students will/may encounter you can then cover these in more detail in the classroom when going over charts . Its up to the individual school to assess their operating area. In the Solent we have alot of things that we have to include over and above other schools that operate in less congested waters.The exclusion zone being one of them.

Rogue Wave · 20 March 2005, 23:10

I understand the reasoning behind selling a book to students, and I agree with it as the two books you mention make very concise reference manuals I didn't word my handout suggestion very well! It's more to do with Adding Value than the RYA curriculum

What I meant to say is that if your student is going to be a trailer sailor and is new to it, during launching and recovery do you empahsise the curse of the trailer bearing If so should we give em a handout that explains trailer maintenance or at least a link to reference point telling where em where to get spare parts for trailer and articles about towing.

Safety Kit does one give them links to to get safety stuff from and give a list of what they need!

ASFAIK there isn't a standard little test at the end of the course.....should we standardise one through this forum?

If the person is gonna be a ribber do we tell em how to sort a puncture out at sea?

Also if the people on the course wated to drive a 32 foot boat that was never going to be trailered does one need to go through the launch and recovery stage, or just the theory

It strikes me that talking about the exclusion zone Kinda dovetails into explainig attraction as well as chart work

I could go on

tim griffin · 21 March 2005, 08:12

You would have to fit the course to the student , ie your 32 footer and never going to trail, your ribber and their trailer you will cover it to what depth you think is required. Safety kit get them to bring a list of what kit they think is required then as you go through what you carry onboard they can tick it off and if needs be add to their list. A written test do you have time ?

No two schools are the same due to location and equipment each school will have strengths and weaknesses . You have to make sure you cover every aspect of the course, and then you enhance it to suit your operating area.
RE Punctures at sea can you fix them while afloat . The course is 80% practical the more you do afloat the better value for money the students get. It depends how you have structured your lesson plans as to how you link all this information together both afloat and in the classroom.
Going back to the exclusion zone if you cross it run alongside or go near it then include it in your theory and practical covering , interaction and visibility from the bridge.

Rogue Wave · 21 March 2005, 09:07

thanks Tim

Yep you can fix a puncture at sea, but I am not advocating training that in the PB2 I am just say give a link to a website that sells the stuff to fix trailers and other stuff like clamshells, stuff that it takes us months/ years to find out about

for example does anybody advise their students to take the vessell and get an RNLI sea safety check or should we not?

You know stuff that's free , is no skin off our nose but helps the boating cause in the long run nad maybe educates our students a little bit more.

A recomended Bibiography might be good, Solent Hazards, the previously mentioned books, boat maintenance that sort of stuff

brucehawsker · 21 March 2005, 12:43

Did two two days - one out of Medina - all in the river. Second out of Yarmouth - all to the West. No big ships....

tim griffin · 21 March 2005, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

thanks Tim

for example does anybody advise their students to take the vessell and get an RNLI sea safety check or should we not?

You know stuff that's free , is no skin off our nose but helps the boating cause in the long run nad maybe educates our students a little bit more.

A recomended Bibiography might be good, Solent Hazards, the previously mentioned books, boat maintenance that sort of stuff

Loads of freebies from the RYA and MCA . Sea check yes Solas v Lifesaving signals engine checks , lifejackets the list is huge.
Any thing that you feel is worth recommending to students is good ,the list of books available is comprehensive from Motors to hazards.

Bruce i am sorry you did not know about the hazards i have no experience of Medina Valley and how they run , if your other school does not operate in the central Solent then can understand why it was not covered, one thing though from this, i think all Instructors reading these forums must have questioned themselves as to what they do include in their courses, so some good has come of it. You were very unfortunate but extremely brave in owning up to your mishaps, lessons have been learned by yourself and others don@t be put off . I imagine the offers of help have come flooding in from various people / schools .