Whole Body Vibration Seminar

[Steve_B]

Carefull, its not what you might first think.

To quote,
The Whole Body Vibration Seminar is aimed at those with owner or a management role in the marine sectors affected by this major health and safety issue. Sectors include military, search & rescue, government agencies, local authorities, police, wind farm, oil & gas, thrill ride, charter and all organisations operating planing boats under 24 metre.

I have no conection with this, but will be going along and thought I would share.

To be held at the RNLI College, Poole 17th & 18th May, for further info see link below

Steve

http://www.frc-int.com/

[Steve_B]

Went along to the Seminar today.

A good attendance today including RNLI, the Forces, BMF, Nautical Institute, Port of London Authority, several Police Forces, Delta and others. Really, really surprised that I was the only commercial operator who had attended on either day and that the RYA & MCA had both been too busy.

A very valuable experience and feel in a much better position to manage the new legislation and the risk. It was agreed that the values set by Europe are not fit for purpose and that the "Industry" needs to join forces to agree a better base line.

The is an issue that is not going away and doing nothing is not an option.

Steve

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by 250kts

Went along to the Seminar today.

................It was agreed that the values set by Europe are not fit for purpose and that the "Industry" needs to join forces to agree a better base line.

Do you mean you want to increase or reduce the new guidance/regs?

[Steve_B]

The first priority must be to change the way it is measured and on the back of this, set a new higher level, with the aim of every operator to bring it down over time.
The present levels were aimed at land vehicles such as tractors & lorries. Real life experiments on planning craft have seen that the limits laid down are exceeded typically after 120 secs and can be exceeded on a boat at rest in the Solent!
Extensive work is being conducted by the US Navy and Canadian's and there is a need for the industry here to come together and have our say through a single body. If "we" dont, the way its measured and the limits are unlikely to be reviewed/changed for 5/6years. In the mean time, any claim for compensation would be based on todays standards.

[karlT]

Surprised the MCA were not present, maybe they are involved at a higher level ??

How do the airlines manage this? Their flying/cabin crew are subject to vibrations both in normal service and during periods of turbulence ??
Could a passenger claim for injuries following a flight that experienced turbulence ??

I think for your passengers as long as you highlight the risks there is not much more you can do. As far as the crew you employ, you may need guidelines for them to follow both for their health and the wellbeing of your clients.

These may include:

Standing / seating arrangements, handholds, applicable speed of operation in defined conditions etc etc

[Steve_B]

Yep your right, the regs only apply to protecting employees and i have that covered now.

You do owe a duty of care to the clients and lets face it, if your protecting the crew then anyone on the boat should also be at lower risk.

[C2 RIBS]

Hi Steve. I have added to your original post on subject.

We at the Professional Charter Association (PCA) are in receipt of the following direct from the MCA-

"I am contacting you as a representative of your organisation to make you aware that there is a public consultation on the procedure for seeking exemptions under the Merchant Shipping and Fishing Vessels Noise and Vibration Regulations. The following link will take you to the consultation page on the MCA website."

MCA - Current Consulations

I have also attached a covering letter from the MCA's Seafarer Safety and Health Branch with more details of the consultation on, and how to make any comments you may have.

[C2 RIBS]

This appears to be the main document covering the following areas
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/vibration_exemption_mgn.doc

The employer shall ensure that workers are not exposed to mechanical vibration exceeding the daily exposure limit value specified below;

(a) For hand-arm vibration - the daily exposure limit value standardised to an eight hour reference period 5 m/s² or
(b) For whole-body vibration – the daily exposure limit value standardised to an eight hour reference period is 1.15 m/s²


To me as a lay person I find all the figures mean very little but exposure to and above these levels may leave us liable to prosecution. There are areas of exemption which can be applied for and the document list them further down
An exemption may be granted; provided that the MCA is satisfied that the state of the art, and the specific characteristics of the ship do not make it possible to comply with the whole body exposure limit value, whatever technical and organisational measures are adopted.

Steve- you attended the seminar, does this all make sense? What else might we have to do or consider doing?

[Tony Hill]

see their link

QuinQuari : Shock Mitigation Testing

Would be interested to hear if anyone has tried the product

Tony

[C2 RIBS]

Tony , nice link, Yes would be good to hear of others involvement, when was this developed?

The main area everyone drives at is seats and possibly some shock reduction foam or floor covering. All appear to have a massive expense but perhaps builders selling to commercial operators need to get more involved as Quinquari have

[chewy]

You can get shock mitigation decking, where the entire deck is on shocks...

[C2 RIBS]

Got an e mail today about this
Maritime Journal - Vibration awareness training for RIB crew

FRC International are running Whole Body Vibration (WBV) Awareness Courses for RIB and planing craft operators on the south coast in January. This is an invitation for you to attend.

You may have seen articles about WBV in recent marine publications including the Maritime Journal Maritime Journal - Vibration awareness training for RIB crew

FRC WBV Awareness Courses, recognised by The Nautical Institute, are relevant to military, search & rescue, government agencies, local authorities, police, wind farm, oil & gas, thrill rides, charter, powerboat schools and all organisations operating planing craft. FRC WBV courses also provide the background to the EC Vibration Directive legislation for naval architects, boat builders and equipment manufacturers.

WBV MANAGER is a 1 day awareness course aimed at all managers, officers and supervisors. WBV CREW is a 1 day awareness course aimed at all coxswains and crew. See FRC International - Whole Body Vibration Awareness Courses

Commencing at Port Of London in January the FRC (Fast Response Craft) team will be presenting the first WBV courses. You are welcome to attend the following WBV MANAGER Courses at:-

RNLI Lifeboat College - Poole: Tuesday 17th January 2012

Grand Harbour Hotel - Southampton: Tuesday 24th January 2012

The cost of the WBV Awareness Course including certificate, lunch and refreshments is £195.00 per person

[C2 RIBS]

I attended this whole body vibration WBV course today at Southampton. As 250kts stated it is a good insight to the EU legislation that came into force 6th July 2010.

Attendance today varied from charter operators from The Channel Isles, MCA, Police, doctors, surveyors, rib manufacturer and a few others.

It is clear that the present figures set by this legislation we cannot meet due to manner it was set years ago and over the next years the MCA and other bodies are working to get the figures correct for fast boat operators.

The enforcement we believe will only happen when there is an incident and the MAIB and solicitors become involved and we as operators are likely to be asked what we have done to reduce vibration/shock AND noise(which also comes under this legislation).

Safe to say I am no expert but will produce a debrief for PCA members to look at their processes and briefings. Having attended I will change some areas of operation despite having prior knowledge of this legislation

Looking around generally about reduction of vibration/shock could see surveyors in the future stating boats are not fit for purpose if no reduction methods have been introduced.

What you can gleam from the basic understanding is the duty of care to our helms/staff and also to clients aboard fast boats. Employers have a duty to ensure employees are suitably trained in this arena of WBV reduction.

This course also covered Boat issues, Organisation issues and Personnel issues.

I know there is some scepticism about this but having now listened to those who know I can only recommend others in similar roles attend and gain an understanding. As Steve 250kts said "This is an issue that is not going away and doing nothing is not an option"

[Poly]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

It is clear that the present figures set by this legislation we cannot meet due to manner it was set years ago and over the next years the MCA and other bodies are working to get the figures correct for fast boat operators.

Interesting that Quinquari believe their boats already comply with the figures then (without expensive seats).

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Interesting that Quinquari believe their boats already comply with the figures then (without expensive seats).

Yep, the figures set would suggest about 45 mins for me in The Solent on a normal choppy day and any fast boat. Reduction can be made by set boat construction, seating, flooring, how driven etc but in general these figures were set for agricultural vehs so we have no chance to meet them. The MCA are now partnering with about twenty countries to get recording in place so it can be set to a level we can meet.

Any way we are now expected as operators to show we are addressing the legislation.

The MCA guidance notes for whole body vibration come under MGN 436 (m+f) which was published Sept 2011
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mgn_436.pdf

[m chappelow]

http://www.highspeedcraft.org/pdf/9R...Hull_Seats.pdf

Another link for those with an intrest.

[Steve_B]

Hi Ian

Really pleased you went along and thought it worth while.

Let me know if you would like to talk through in the future.

Steve

[Poly]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Yep, the figures set would suggest about 45 mins for me in The Solent on a normal choppy day and any fast boat. Reduction can be made by set boat construction, seating, flooring, how driven etc

Ian - but I'm wondering how you've arrived at 45 minutes. I know that there is some data kicking around (from MOD?) which suggests high exposure in very low times. Not surprisingly the shock mitigation suppliers are promoting those limited data sets. I can completely believe that it is possible for a boat on the solent to exceed the limits but I'm not sure how you assume 45mins when there are so many variables. Are we convinced its not the vested interests of the shock mitigation suppliers arguing that your risk is huge. Quinquari weren't which is why they seemed to come to the conclusion: "... the results were remarkable ... the vessel complied to the EU directive without need for further mitigation." Now they also have a vested interest and since they make no caveats about driver, weather conditions etc I am a little sceptical, but I support their logic - how are boat operators supposed to understand the risks if they don't have a measurement of the current exposure only other peoples estimates from different boats, conditions and drivers.

but in general these figures were set for agricultural vehs so we have no chance to meet them.

Actually I think that might be the wrong way to think about them. They were presumably set for "the human body" and some perceived level of exposure - injury - risk relationship. There will be a very hard argument that it is safe to expose someone to larger levels of WBV simply because they are on a boat. There is evidence that shock related injuries do occur which won't help the argument. I've been on some agri veh's - no idea how "compliant" they were but the 'bounce' can exceed anything I would expect on an ordinary "rib ride" in normal weather.

[passbhoy]

im attending this at the start of February ! looking forward to it

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by chewy

You can get shock mitigation decking, where the entire deck is on shocks...

There's a sportsboat doing the rounds with the RNLI, Marines etc that has a computer controlled hydraulic dampened cockpit, giving an unbelievably smooth ride in some quite horrid conditions!