Work boat and safety boat hire etc

Tim M · 09 November 2009, 21:02

I'm after some clarification on this. I'm perfectly happy with what you need in place if your chartering a RIB with paying punters on board, but I want to know what one needs in place to hire out safety boats for applications like construction etc. I presume this comes under some sort of work boat code? If you hire out a small boat (for arguments sake lets say a 4m Searider) on its own (for the customers own trained man to drive for say a waterside construction job on a river) what paperwork (apart from insurance) does the boat need? What qualifications would the driver need (or just enough to satisfy the requirement of the insurance company?)

Jono Garton · 10 November 2009, 07:56

In this case, in my opinion, you are still chartering the boat as bare boat charter.

However depends on the river is it a river or estuary (is it categorised waters)? I don't think the code for small commercial vessels in land is out yet.

On the new code, charter boat and workboat are on the same code. On the old code I think the workboat was a brown code.

Are you quoting on a job in south wales?

Jono

biffer · 10 November 2009, 08:32

jono, i think new 280 code has left the small commercial boats out, an oversite, the new code is a right mess, trying for cat 2 on my rib, first the mca will allow the cabin now they tell me it has to be a wheelhouse, they just make it up as they go along

Tim M · 10 November 2009, 09:31

No this isn't Wales; not got anything in particular in mind at the moment just trying to get my head around all of this.

So to clarify, if it's categorised waters the boat still needs to be coded as it's still a bare boat charter (does this even apply to a small dinghy?)

And if we're inland (non categorised waters, lake etc) the vessel doesn't need to be coded (providing the insurer is happy?)

C2 RIBS · 10 November 2009, 17:53

http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29963

Jono Garton · 10 November 2009, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

So to clarify, if it's categorised waters the boat still needs to be coded as it's still a bare boat charter (does this even apply to a small dinghy?)

And if we're inland (non categorised waters, lake etc) the vessel doesn't need to be coded (providing the insurer is happy?)

This is my understanding, I was advised to get the boat as close to coding requirements as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

does this even apply to a small dinghy?

Yes

Searider · 11 November 2009, 20:30

Hi Tim,

As far as I know you will need the boat(s) to comply with whatever the local regulations are.

For example if certifying a RIB through Hamble for the Solent the requirements are greater than if you remain within the river. Same for Portsmouth Harbour. The Categorised waters are categorised A-D.

I don't have the info with me at home but there is a list of the categorised waters around the UK on the net.

I think that you need to research each location on a case by case basis - after a few it will probably become apparent that the requirements may well be very similar.

Your insurers will be very easy to please. They'll most likely say "assuming all regulations complied with". There is also a warranty of legality in a standard policy - you're not covered for illegal acts.
They probably won't be too bothered about checking out your paperwork until you have a claim - then someone will be along and scrutinise it fully.

Duncan

Tim M · 11 November 2009, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Searider

Hi Tim,

As far as I know you will need the boat(s) to comply with whatever the local regulations are.

For example if certifying a RIB through Hamble for the Solent the requirements are greater than if you remain within the river. Same for Portsmouth Harbour. The Categorised waters are categorised A-D.

I don't have the info with me at home but there is a list of the categorised waters around the UK on the net.

I think that you need to research each location on a case by case basis - after a few it will probably become apparent that the requirements may well be very similar.

Your insurers will be very easy to please. They'll most likely say "assuming all regulations complied with". There is also a warranty of legality in a standard policy - you're not covered for illegal acts.
They probably won't be too bothered about checking out your paperwork until you have a claim - then someone will be along and scrutinise it fully.

Duncan

Duncan, many thanks for that. I'm familiar with the local licencing having licensed RIBs locally (through Portsmouth) before. Sorry if I'm seeming really dense here, but are you suggesting that I should licence the boat through each local authority as and when I need to use/hire it in a different location? Is there not a single piece of paper I can obtain that covers the boat nationwide, similar to what I am familiar with for normal passenger carrying operations? I know for a fact that Portsmouth's local licencing specifically excludes "bare boat charter".

Searider · 12 November 2009, 00:19

Hmmm.

One licence to cover all?

There is a "voluntary" inland code that has been published. This forms the basis of the SASHMA Solent local certification.

I guess that you're aware that you can licence a boat in Portsmouth and be able to operate in Hamble - so there's a bit of commonality.

I think it depends under whose authority you will be operating.

Thames through London will be PLA and they have their own rules.

Inland canals and Thames, possibly other rivers will be EA - this must cover most.
They may use the inland code.

EA might be able to assist.

Doug Stormforce · 12 November 2009, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

Is there not a single piece of paper I can obtain that covers the boat nationwide, .

MCA Code Of Practice

biffer · 12 November 2009, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

MCA Code Of Practice

easier said than done, been back and forth between mecal and mca, no one can make a decision, over 3 month since the survey, still not finished, all the work was, just the desk jockies arguing

Jono Garton · 12 November 2009, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

MCA Code Of Practice

Not for inland waters

fraztiree · 05 January 2010, 12:57

what if you just hire your boat and they have a driver what requirments would you have to have or am i talking rubbish .i was thinking of offering my boat out for hire this summer

Trell · 05 January 2010, 14:08

Are you quoting on a job in south wales?

Jono [/QUOTE]

Have you not got this job squared away yet Jono ?

C2 RIBS · 05 January 2010, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by fraztiree

what if you just hire your boat and they have a driver what requirments would you have to have or am i talking rubbish .i was thinking of offering my boat out for hire this summer

That sounds to me like bareboat charter which would I believe requirement coding dependent upon area of hire/operations. This would amount to accepting finances for the boat and as such falls under examination first and then certification, but if used on training under RYA umbrella I think there is a section which has a lesser requirement but I am not fully up to speed on the training areas

biffer · 05 January 2010, 19:37

how big's the boat, i may be wrong but my understanding is the smallest boat you can code is a 6m

SeaSkills · 05 January 2010, 21:26

I've coded smaller than that. It becomes a problem fitting all the kit on, though!

Jono Garton · 06 January 2010, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trell

Are you quoting on a job in south wales?

Jono

Have you not got this job squared away yet Jono ? [/QUOTE]

Quoting on two in South Wales at minute

Jono

fraztiree · 06 January 2010, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

how big's the boat, i may be wrong but my understanding is the smallest boat you can code is a 6m

yea its only 5.5m

Jono Garton · 07 January 2010, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

how big's the boat, i may be wrong but my understanding is the smallest boat you can code is a 6m

Not correct