2.2 Egg beater - running problems

[Yabadabadoo]

Hello all, have got running issues with a Suzuki DT 2.2 wanted to check I'm on the right/wrong lines

Haven't used it since it ran quite sweetly in a barrel for 15+ minutes happily when I bought it and when I tried it again late last year it died on me and hasn't gone right since

Seems to me it's overheating, with the case off the whole thing becomes too hot to touch. I've had a look at and taken out/put back the impeller, seems fine (not brittle, teeth all there, facing in the right direction, pin in place behind it) there isn't a tell tail as the water leaves via a gap in front of the prop, when up to speed there should be a mist from a couple of holes to the rear of the leg, I get that. Ran it for a bit today without the prop on but it wouldn't last long enough for me to feel if there was water coming from said gap

Would the wrong fuel mix cause over heating? Who I bought it from swore by 50:1 but that seems a bit heavy to me, the fuel in it at the moment is 50:1 and new. I've cleaned the tank out - spotless, cleaned the filter, took the carb apart enough to get any bits n bobs out of the float bowl and to see light through the main jet. Used some thinners to clean it up, no gunk in there. Changed the plug for a new one

Fired up lovely, then coming up to temp couldn't keep ticker and tried to die, I'd increase the revs to stop that from happening hoping it might clear itself? Have played around with the fuel mixture after that. Wound in screw to a soft close then backed out 1.5 turns, started again ok but sputtered out soon after. Played a bit with the idle screw but nothing doing there, at a certain point it didn't like to idle, likes a high idle but even at that point it starts to fade and won't start again - as mentioned gets v hot

So if it isn't or can't be the fuel - can it? I should change the impeller as a place to start and if it isn't that take it all apart and look at the waterways

It's such a simple little lump that I don't find stripping it daunting, quite a few how to (break your outboard) vids on youtube of the DT2

No blockage visible to speak of, could a stone have gotten in? Last thought was gear oil, I've not checked that yet.

Plan A then, continue with basic service - impeller, gear oil - and work inwards?

Edit here: Just reading someone else's post about over heating, they noted white smoke. As this egg beater sputtered out on the regents canal with me last year, I also noted whitish smoke. Lost of power then smoke - head gasket?

Further into the Engines and Props section I go the more I'm putting two and two together.. Just reading a tale of woe about a 15hp ts that seized, if the eggbeater overheated - it was around 2/3rds to WOT at the time it smoked - then I'm learning the internals has expanded and although it runs again when cooled down when it warms up again it seizes, would explain the heat! So I could have a new anchor on the plus side :-D How can I diagnose a suspected seize, or have I already?

[jeffstevens763@g]

personally i would have the head off and look at the waterways plus thermostat and check the piston & bore and take it from there others might have better ideas

[Fenlander]

A motor designed with no tell-tale is always a stress to know is it/isn't it cooling.

You may have two issues both cause by little use... carb gummed up and blocked waterways around the cylinder.

So I'm with Jeff. I'd check out the cooling issue before running again. I have no idea what access you can get to the cooling passages on your motor so can't help there.

Just have a look at the pic below of my old Mariner 4. It had been fine for years with hardly any use then one year I pulled it out of storage and the tell tale wouldn't produce water and it started to steam. The salt deposits had turned to a semi-solid jelly.

[Yabadabadoo]

I didn’t know there was a thermostat! It’s more or less like a sketch of ‘how a combustion engine works’ I’ve been quite happy tinkering away on it so an excuse to spend a bit more time taking it apart I don’t mind. Ideally if I could add a neutral and reverse gear to it while there would be excellent!

[jeffstevens763@g]

regarding salt and nothing to do with engines but just to show the effect of leaving salt water in anything. i keep marine fish if i dont clean out my mixing pump with fresh water the water evaporates leaving salt crystals that is enough to stop the impeller from turning and we are only talking 10 ml of water. fenlander's pic is spot on i would expect something similar from what your experiencing.
to clean waterways use citric acid it will dissolve the salt or vinegar.

[spartacus]

I'd be inclined to run it in a Salt Away or vinegar solution as Jeff has mentioned and see if that does the trick. Yes, you can start to dismantle the head or water jacket but if one of the bolts breaks (always a danger), then you'll need to drill out, retap or helicoil, etc.

Changing the impeller first is a good place to start then work back. Wouldn't worry about too much oil in your petrol... that might just have saved it from seizing.

[paulbrown22]

Sounds like my DT2.2 last year... Mine, which is used for the yacht tender so typically gets heavily used for a few weeks in a year, then only very occasionally, intermittently started doing this last year in the Channel Islands in June, and then when we were up in the Solent late season. I poked bits of wire up various places in the Channel Islands (which helped for a bit), checked and replaced the impeller (which did nothing), and checked everything else I could. The engine would start and run as perfectly as ever, but just no spitting out the rear holes as it has done for the last 20 years!

I finally took it fully apart over Christmas (thankfully everything came undone perfectly), and the picture below shows all the gunk clocking up some of the passageways. I cleared it all out and put it back together for a quick test in a bucket, and it was perfect.

Since then, I've ordered the full gasket kit, so now need to take it apart again to replace the various gaskets, and will then reassembly properly ready for the Summer!

These engines are very easy to work on - I forget how many times I've stripped it whilst sitting on the yacht in various anchorages, so just follow the instructions/videos and go for it - there's nothing clever about them at all. I guess the main potentially annoying thing is shearing some bolts, but certainly on mine, which has sat on a sailing yacht for the past 14 years and not really been shown any love, I had no issues at all.

Good luck!

[jeffstevens763@g]

if it's possible to stand the engine on its head and poor diluted citric acid into the engine water intake[thats all saltaway is by the way but more expensive] leave for a few hours then flush with a hose that way you might get enough water going through to prevent it seizing then run it in a bucket of citric acid then flush with clean water. you can buy a 1kg bag for about a £5 off ebay its safe to use put the acid crystals into water not the other way round.

[Yabadabadoo]

Something like this ?https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F380722519910


What would the ratio be for having it sat upside down and a running flush? How long to leave it upside down, can the acid do damage if left too long?



Itching to take it apart but yes might sheer a nut and it might be good to see if it runs again before going further. I'm feeling it will and good point the heavier oil mix may well have been a saving grace


Would citric acid dissolve or would I see deposits come out? There is something satisfying about cleaning a casing back to smooth metal

[jeffstevens763@g]

thats the stuff.
i used 1kg per plastic dustbin to clean my aquarium rock for 24 hours [the rock dissolved on the surface to clean it, the rock is old reef which is made by corals from seawater.
i put a piece of ordinary aluminum in the solution for 2 weeks to see if it caused any damage which it didn't i also put a bricklayers trowel in for the same period and it dissolved all the concrete off it left that rusty which would be the o2 in the water allowing that.
i also looked at saltaway which i use to flush my engines once a year the data sheet shows its citric acid with some additives i think to leave a coating on the waterway surfaces to help prevent adhesion of salt.
if you use any de-salter there will always be a risk of large deposits coming off and blocking water flow which is alright when you can see a tail tell coming from the engine whilst running.
personally in your case i would mix say a gallon of acid & water starting with 250 g / gallon fill leave for two hours and then flush with water see what comes out do that a couple of times until you have a good flow then you could add some to a bin stand the engine in and run but keep an eye on engine temp.
if it has a thermostat i would take that out and clean by hand in the solution i've seen those totally blocked up.
for info we use citric acid & vinegar to clean pumps but vinegar is more aggressive out of the two my opinion is if it can be used safely on aquarium pumps it's going to be fine in an engine which runs its life in saltwater which is abrasive as well.
if you take your time you should be ok better than stripping down risking bolts breaking but that might have to be done depending on how bad it is.

[Yabadabadoo]

Citric acid crystals bought, mixed 250g with approx a gallon of water. Assumed some kind of home made chute would be in order to get water into leg, not as easy as I thought, solution just sat in chute and dripped away. MK2 was a funnel with a new silicone tube nozzle melted into a shape, nozzle fits just inside but only allows a trickle of solution into the leg, guess work as to why either serious blockage or narrow waterways

Out of curiosity I slowed pulled the cord to see if it would digest the solution any quicker and got solution pumping out of the cylinder head - spark plug was removed. Don't think solution got in from spills only other reason would be me pouring solution into what I read was where the water exits the leg (red arrow) my logic, if water exits at that point I can fill from both sides

Outboard now right way up - quite a lot of the water mix came out so slow as it was I'd been getting some in - including it looks like through the wrong hole. Will go back to shed this eve and get any remains out, some oil into the chamber and for good measure have a look inside the carb!

Edit: Impeller doesn't look as good as I thought, first time I've removed or seen one in the hand last week. From reading they should be solid and vertical, bent over (tensioned) inside the water 'chamber' in the right direction, the pressure forms a seal and enough pressure to force water up. As you lot are saying likely to be a combination of narrowed waterways and the impeller.

[jeffstevens763@g]

Sounds like cylinder head gasket has blown and your right impeller needs changing

[Yabadabadoo]

Bit of time for some tinkering today, so decided to start the gasket process. Got the bolts undone* and sat puzzled for a while as to why the cylinder/powerhead wouldn't come away despite me taking off the lower legs bolts. An old post on YBW forum gave me the courage to hit the poor old outboard with a hammer - carefully using a block of wood I will add.

Ta dar, lower leg/gearbox off as the driveshaft splines had become stuck together and access to the cylinder head (correct term?) Not much doing in the way of salt, what was there came off easily I daresay the citric acid had softened it by now.

*The 6 bolts were not very tight, one was barely done up and the others needed just a light firm tweak to start them off.

I had a good look at the brass water tube, shining a bright light down it from the curved end but nothing doing there either all walls of tube are clear with no deposits

The engine has been opened before as there were traces of liquid gasket seal inside the water ways, not really anything to cause a blockage I think. So far having a careful poke around with a screwdriver none of the round channels are blocked. I started a bit of a clean and with the last bit of time I had chanced my arm with the cylinder head nuts

One was hand tight - if that - and two others came undone with little effort. Murphy's law in effect there is one that is quite solid and 'by feel' I'm pretty sure the next thing to happen will be the head snapping off. Would take any advice on this

From research penetrating oil/spray with comes up as does heating the nut - I have a blow torch with an accurate nozzle so could try that. This was mentioned, not used it myself, makes sense though to shrink not expand

I have some of Quicksilver marine grease wondering if it suitable for bolts before putting them back, can I use that on the spline/top of drive shaft

[Yabadabadoo]

A bit cleaner.. Bit more to go!

Just reading back my post and thinking about your last comment Jeff, with the hand tight bolts and impeller that might be all. Maybe not blown gasket but loose bolts?

I'm into it now so would rather take it all apart, clean, fit new bits and see how it goes - just the pesky bolt to shift

[jeffstevens763@g]

My guess is the pump has been pumping but has been dragging air in as a Ventura effect causing the water to be laden with air and not cooling or indeed causing an air lock hence the overheating, with that bolt I would heat up tap with a hammer to shock it and use freeing oil if you can gat it in plus gas is supposed to be good but take your time

[dave3235]

Hi

Splines only nothing on top air lock could acure .

[jeffstevens763@g]

thinking more about the water problem cylinder gases could have been getting into the water track with the loose head bolts more than the water pump pulling it in and with the tell tail underwater and air wanting to rise very little water has been getting round the engine. i would check the head to make sure its not warped. personally i would buy new bolts and gaskets too you come this far may as well do a top job hope you get that bolt out.

[Lee1]

I'm a sucker for old vintage outboards and often go too far i.e. . when the total restoration cost of what you have becomes more than a mint one for sale at all the money, I'm now going to continue to enjoy vintage motors but I'm now only buying very good ones that really do only need an impeller as when you do a full restore that's goes on and on often due to un-flushed salt water use you often forget that if it's that bad by way of water way corrosion in the water ports the cylinders and piston rings are probably worn as well and you get it all back together at a cost that's not really worth it then find out it does not run like it should under load, but I guess it's all fun lol

[Yabadabadoo]

Before I started with the Suzuki I’d been making enquiries about where to take the 15hp Merc for a service near to London where they would respect the outboard. Having done the research and been given confidence from this forum and others to take apart the Suzuki I’m happy to be doing the work and in way don’t mind spending the money as I’m getting a lot back from the process, I’m also now not looking for a mechanic now as I’m confident enough because of these repairs to service the Merc

Work so far - Stripped/cleaned/inspected carb, opened gearbox/inspected gear /will change oil & impeller, taken leg off/head apart for a thorough clean down and change gasket change

I think parts and consumables will be about £50 plus my time which as I’m learning and enjoying the process - provided I get the bolt out and the head isn’t warped/bore or piston issues - I’ll be chuffed to look at the outboard working again. Moreover if it packs up again I’ll have a better and quicker idea of what it could be

Agreed there’s a tipping point of how much to spend on an old unit, I bought it for £160 so it’s still within reason to get it working again. Good to bear in mind when taking on a non runner!

[jeffstevens763@g]

£160 for a course in outboard service & repair is well worth it just for the learning process albeit self tuition.if/when you get it running a bargain fingers crossed