2 Stroke can of worms - judge Judy

[The Gurnard]

Aww..Sorry to hear that James..I have been in that same position in the past ..so know how you feel.

You are a Jinx Poly .. initially I thought ..the letter has a big stamp “Request online and you should get your refund within 5 working days”. I used the HMRC portal 5 months ago to notify them of my change of address ..which they obviously have so I though..it will be easy...Poly for once..is wrong

So.. I log in and it says ..we will send a 6 digit access code you your mobile to log in. They have the correct mobile number ..but guess what ..four tries and so far ..no access code has been sent.

YEAH UPDATE ..the codes ..all four arrived half an hour later ..o I do hope Poly is wrong for once. I filled in my details and all seemed to go as planned. So saying..Im still waiting my State pension to start ..its delayed because of Covid..yet I have never had Covid (To my knowledge anyhoo)

I may have another dilemma too..in that I have been notified that the Yamaha 25HP EFI that I was dreaming about has an extra wide saddle and may not be suitable for my Quicksilver transom. I hope it is ok..but if not..I will have to rethink it..anyone got the dimensions of the extra wide saddle. ? I have not found it on line yet ?

Incidentally ..this is an example of the power of RIBNET.. Since I posted my thoughts on what OB, I have been given a far bit of very important info from members behind the scene ..so thanks to everyone involved... the Forum is a very useful tool

[Jameslong]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Thanks Jeff ..and I agree with your thoughts.


Im acting quick in case my car breaks down in a month or so and I say to myself ..I want the money for a car .. so I have put the word out to someone we both know to ask Davie (also of this Forum) if he can get me a Yam 25 EFI s/s electric start and charge. He is a decent guy too..as well as is Ardoran Marine ..but they don’t do Yamaha new

Im already happy with the top speed of my Quicksilver Alu hull..and although weight is not a major issue for me..I want to still be able to winch the boat off the beach and back onto its trailer. The Yamaha 4 stroke is only a couple kg heavier than my two stroke.. will not be so noisy..no expensive two stroke oil and should run on E10 fuel which is 10% cheaper that premium and also use half the amount ..so its a win win win situation all the way...for me anyhoo. Thanks again

Are you going to include power trim in the Spec as it might be very useful on the trips you make especially as none of us are getting any younger

[The Gurnard]

Hi again James..Im willing to go the full works .. just depends on what I can get in time for next summer ..so willing to compromise

[Jameslong]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Aww..Sorry to hear that James..I have been in that same position in the past ..so know how you feel.

You are a Jinx Poly .. initially I thought ..the letter has a big stamp “Request online and you should get your refund within 5 working days”. I used the HMRC portal 5 months ago to notify them of my change of address ..which they obviously have so I though..it will be easy...Poly for once..is wrong

So.. I log in and it says ..we will send a 6 digit access code you your mobile to log in. They have the correct mobile number ..but guess what ..four tries and so far ..no access code has been sent.

YEAH UPDATE ..the codes ..all four arrived half an hour later ..o I do hope Poly is wrong for once. I filled in my details and all seemed to go as planned. So saying..Im still waiting my State pension to start ..its delayed because of Covid..yet I have never had Covid (To my knowledge anyhoo)

I may have another dilemma too..in that I have been notified that the Yamaha 25HP EFI that I was dreaming about has an extra wide saddle and may not be suitable for my Quicksilver transom. I hope it is ok..but if not..I will have to rethink it..anyone got the dimensions of the extra wide saddle. ? I have not found it on line yet ?

Incidentally ..this is an example of the power of RIBNET.. Since I posted my thoughts on what OB, I have been given a far bit of very important info from members behind the scene ..so thanks to everyone involved... the Forum is a very useful tool

Yes not a nice letter I got made worse by the fact that earlier they told me via the portal that I owed them nothing. Then When I got the letter it seemed like a double kick in the wotsits. I still say enjoy your windfall you deserve it.

[The Gurnard]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

I've never understood the legislation... I think it should have been applied in reverse... 2-stroke OK for leisure and commercial 4-stroke only.

I agree Fenlander..that would have made far more sense. Im still thinking most folks will eventually give up on them..the E10 fuel is another subtle way of deterring folks ..Im sure the two stroke oil price will increase later on to deter even more folks. Once cost of running is the main consideration for everyone ..weight loose out. I doubt I will be around when the Fourstroke / Electric Can of Worms..Judge Judy thread starts ..but predict it will..some day

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

>>>Commercial guys can legally buy the old carb type two strokes..but up my way..they all appear to run their tiller creel boats with four strokes ..is that the same in other parts of the country ?

Yep same down south at the pontoons... many quite tatty small working boats with nice 4-strokes on.

I've never understood the legislation... I think it should have been applied in reverse... 2-stroke OK for leisure and commercial 4-stroke only.

Yup. It doesn't make huge sense on the surface. Maybe the maths was worked out on the basis that commercial users would naturally wear out and replace much more quickly, tend to operate in more open waters and would be incentivised to switch to 4 strokes due to their far superior fuel economy. Add to that the absence of a union in the leisure industry and it was the easier move to instigate change?

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

Yup. It doesn't make huge sense on the surface. Maybe the maths was worked out on the basis that commercial users would naturally wear out and replace much more quickly, tend to operate in more open waters and would be incentivised to switch to 4 strokes due to their far superior fuel economy. Add to that the absence of a union in the leisure industry and it was the easier move to instigate change?

The decision to allow commercial use was to give operators the option to chose the best option for their application. Two strokes are more tolerant in extreme environments & are easier to keep running due to their simpler nature they seem to be favoured in more remote areas of the world where service facilities & fuel quality are less reliable. The new e10 fuel will have far greater impact on modern 4 stroke & injection engines. Assuming rubber items on two strokes are e10 compatible which most more modern 2 stroke will be, they will be less prone to expensive problems related to e10.
The current crop of 4 stroke injected engines whilst good they wont live on to the age some old two strokes have managed in significant numbers. Electrical issues & fuel injection problems will render them uneconomic to repair far sooner than old school two strokes. Whilst large hp 4 strokes have taken over I think with portables & sub 50hp two strokes still have their place only imho of course

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[Notebook]

Are the new 2 stroke smoky and smelly ?
Are there any restrictions on waterways?
Surely a new 4 or 2 would be ok with new 10 petrol?

I like the 9.8 but haven’t worked out how to get it in the car, and also onto the boat.
Still thinking.
Therefore a 6hp or 9.8 2 stroke. But that’s cash.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Notebook

Are the new 2 stroke smoky and smelly ?

Are there any restrictions on waterways?

Surely a new 4 or 2 would be ok with new 10 petrol?



I like the 9.8 but haven’t worked out how to get it in the car, and also onto the boat.

Still thinking.

Therefore a 6hp or 9.8 2 stroke. But that’s cash.

They will run fine on it Untill someone runs them on old fuel thats sat with a bit of moisture in it which has been absorbed & then sits in the fuel system further degrading & corroding parts & damaging expensive injectors, of course the same can happen to a two stroke but a carb clean on a two stroke can be done anywhere & your away again, not so easy with an injection system.

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[Notebook]

Thanks

[909]

Originally Posted by beamishken

They will run fine on it Untill someone runs them on old fuel thats sat with a bit of moisture in it which has been absorbed & then sits in the fuel system further degrading & corroding parts & damaging expensive injectors, of course the same can happen to a two stroke but a carb clean on a two stroke can be done anywhere & your away again, not so easy with an injection system

Facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvS_D4_lF5U

I only use Shell premium 91 no ethanol

And run the outboard dry after every trip (pull the choke at the very end)

[Notebook]

Very interesting.
I didn’t know about the availability of such a fuel.
Are there others?
Thanks

[neil.mccrirrick]

Interesting video. I assume most tanks are made from stainless or plastic. Presumable aluminium tanks may be susceptible but I would have thought be treated and not plain aluminium

Carbs are a different pribkrn running dry seems sensible if ethanol fuel will be in them and stored for any signigicaht time

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by 909

Facts.

I only use Shell premium 91 no ethanol

And run the outboard dry after every trip (pull the choke at the very end)

Good to see a video that uses enough time for the basic reactions to occur and highlights the snake oil con.

One thing to note re running outboards dry, which is obviously standard practice, is that it doesn't actually run the fuel system dry. What happens is that the vacuum that builds as the fuel is pulled through to the carb eventually overpowers the pump and the engine stalls. There's still fuel in the lines and carb.

Going forward, for people running ethanol in the season it's best to empty the tank of all fuel, replace with a bit of garden centre, zero ethanol fuel, run that through to clean out the system and then drain the float pot and filter as these are two key reservoirs for residual fuel.

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

Interesting video. I assume most tanks are made from stainless or plastic. Presumable aluminium tanks may be susceptible but I would have thought be treated and not plain aluminium

Carbs are a different pribkrn running dry seems sensible if ethanol fuel will be in them and stored for any signigicaht time

The video is very useful but it is missing details on the aluminium grade he used in the tests.

[Fenlander]

Seems the petrol situation in 909's home Canada is quite different to ours. As far as I can see standard grades are 87 and 89 with their premium being 91. As 909 says seems Shell 91 Premium currently ethanol free.

But Canada are working towards 15% ethanol across their fuels and I can't see how they could justify excluding their Shell premium from this.

Re the video snake oil vs snake video in a way. Not lab conditions and only one brand tested.

I use Quicksilver conditioner. It may or may not help but it makes me feel better... not that I'm drinking it you understand.

Aspen still under serious consideration.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Notebook

Very interesting.
I didn’t know about the availability of such a fuel.
Are there others?
Thanks

Aspen is the fuel for people who are particularly concerned, don’t mind paying extra and are ok with the inconvenience of buying in small bottles.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Poly

Aspen is the fuel for people who are particularly concerned, don’t mind paying extra and are ok with the inconvenience of buying in small bottles.

Easiest way to avoid issues is keep using it if you have a good turnover of fuel even e10 wont cause issues. The issues start with old fuel sat in engines for long periods

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[Matt]

Project Farm is good, even though he gets so excited he sounds like he's on helium.

[Fenlander]

I know... the narration was quite edgy.